Libera Members Time Line

[James237ww]

Sorry to chime in suddenly, first time I've glanced at the whole Timeline spreadsheet - have you considered (cells) BU15 and CK23 may be the same person?

They are the same person. As his name isn't known, I won't mention it I'm afraid. I'm not in touch with him anymore

[Dinedorelle]

Sorry to chime in suddenly, first time I've glanced at the whole Timeline spreadsheet - have you considered (cells) BU15 and CK23 may be the same person?

They are the same person. As his name isn't known, I won't mention it I'm afraid. I'm not in touch with him anymore

I must say Wolf, you have a very keen eye for recognition!
Of course, it's great to have it confirmed by someone who actually sang with him, so thanks to you too James.

[Dinedorelle]

Bottom one is me. James Smith

I had a sneaking feeling that one of the older members might end up looking through these posts during the lockdown and find something interesting to comment on!
Thank you so much James for all this extra information.
Firstly, just to confirm that this is you?



Would you try and locate yourself on the Timeline too?



We may have put you somewhere else by mistake, so if you've not already seen the portion of the Timeline with those you once used to sing with, it's here :



And please PLEASE don't run away too quickly, there are many of us that would love to chat to you!

Yes that is me! On that spreadsheet 25DQ is me. In terms of timeline I would fit in between 30 and 31 as they stand now.

Great, thanks for that James.
I've added you into the Timeline now between the dates 1989 - 1995 where we're delighted to include you. You're right alongside Daren Geraghty, as it seems you were in Angel Voices at the same time.
Here's a resumé of your insertion :



and here :



If you think we've put you in the wrong place, please let us know.
Unfortunately we only have 2 out the 8 images of you over the years you were singing, so maybe you know of other videos where you appeared, where we could get some screenshots to complete your Timeline in more detail?

[Wolf]

I must say Wolf, you have a very keen eye for recognition!

I suppose so! Which is a surprise to me as my facial recognition in day-to-day life is generally pretty poor.

Now at the risk of not quitting while ahead, I think portraits DK23 and DU25 might belong together; and with a little less conviction (given the quality), the image at DS25 looks like a reasonable match for Kit Weston? (let me know if you'd like my rationale).

The following 2 are simply ideas: I think it's difficult to see given his hair is so short and there's 3 years until the next pic, but DO25 could potentially be a 1992 Joe Spears; and DY27 may be Chris Baron (if he was present in the choir at the time?).

If locating the cells is an inconvenience, let me know and I will take screenshots now and in future.

[Dinedorelle]

I suppose so! Which is a surprise to me as my facial recognition in day-to-day life is generally pretty poor.

Now at the risk of not quitting while ahead, I think portraits DK23 and DU25 might belong together; and with a little less conviction (given the quality), the image at DS25 looks like a reasonable match for Kit Weston? (let me know if you'd like my rationale).

Yes Wolf, I think you may be right with this. I didn't like my choice which is why I put a question mark above it originally.
The more I look at it now, the more I'm convinced it's the same boy, Gary Francis. The ''late 1992' image isn't so convincing, but the 1995 image is the spitting.
I'll move him over, and add your name to the cells' notes as the contributor.
First image early 1992, second late 1992 and last 1995.



(Anyone who hasn't accessed any of these notes, I'm trying to add them gradually to each image of a boy. If there is a little black triangle top right of the cell, there's a note which relates to some proof etc., with the contributor mentioned. You just need to hover over it)
For anybody reading this comment after 25th June 2020, the above spreadsheet coordinates will have changed in order to update Wolf's discovery.

I also agree that the second image could be Kit Weston. He was a long-standing member (at least 4 years) so there's no reason why this may not be an earlier version of him from late 1992. He has a distinctive shaped mouth, and haircut too, and he's one of three boys that I couldn't match to earlier or later years.
I'll move him too.

The following 2 are simply ideas: I think it's difficult to see given his hair is so short and there's 3 years until the next pic, but DO25 could potentially be a 1992 Joe Spears; and DY27 may be Chris Baron (if he was present in the choir at the time?).

Your idea regarding Joe Spears is also very enticing! I say that because when I discovered the YouTube comment from his mother, she said he'd been in Angel Voices for 8 years. There are very few images of him from videos from the earlier years, so perhaps this is an early one? The dates are concurrent with his mother at least.
First image late 1992, then 1995, 1997, 1998, 1999 and 2000.



Also, like Kit Weston, he's all by himself as he stands on the Timeline, so theoretically he belongs to a column somewhere.
I'll move him, but add a question mark.

And perhaps the last of your theories about Chris Baron is also valid. He was another 'straggler' without a linked image before or after.
1993 and 1995.



I'll move him too with a question mark. Maybe someone knows his exact tenure in Angel Voices?

Keep up that really good work Wolf

[Wolf]

Keep up that really good work Wolf

You've already done such an incredible job at matching most, I'm not sure there will be too many more observations I could make, but I'll certainly try! I'm more confident in the latter two since you've made the effort to put their portraits side by side; Joe Spears' eyes are a convincing match, and Chris Baron's cheeks are quite unique, and neither have any features that contradict these theories.


I did try to upload pictures of the following but with no success, so I hope you don't mind locating cells again. (It was very good of you to format everything in your response for others to see, thanks).

- GE41 appears to be a clear match for Chris Robson.

- EU33 seems reasonable for Alex Baron?

- Not sure of the sources of these 2 photos, but the boys in DA27 and CY27 (adjacent) look identical to me.


I'll look again in the near future, it's more fun to do in short batches, and certainly an exercise that's better with fresh eyes! It is a fun activity though.

[Wolf]

Thought I'd take a quick peek again.

I think DU27 is a match for Gary Francis.

Assuming the sources are from separate videos, I'm thinking GK43 looks a lot like George Tarlton (potentially a little younger than his existing 2000 photo, perhaps the video was shot a while before?)

Joe Platt's 2000 and 2002 photos look like they derive from the same media.

EA31 and EE35 look like a fair pairing.

I suspect I may have alluded to this in the post above but the cells have since moved; DM31 closely resembles Gary Francis.

From above, I'd also maintain GE41 is reasonable for Chris Robson, though an argument for Anthony Chadney could also be made. Certainly one of the two.

[Dinedorelle]

Keep up that really good work Wolf

You've already done such an incredible job at matching most, I'm not sure there will be too many more observations I could make, but I'll certainly try! I'm more confident in the latter two since you've made the effort to put their portraits side by side; Joe Spears' eyes are a convincing match, and Chris Baron's cheeks are quite unique, and neither have any features that contradict these theories.


I did try to upload pictures of the following but with no success, so I hope you don't mind locating cells again. (It was very good of you to format everything in your response for others to see, thanks).

- GE41 appears to be a clear match for Chris Robson.

- EU33 seems reasonable for Alex Baron?

- Not sure of the sources of these 2 photos, but the boys in DA27 and CY27 (adjacent) look identical to me.


I'll look again in the near future, it's more fun to do in short batches, and certainly an exercise that's better with fresh eyes! It is a fun activity though.

I apologise to anybody trying to localise these table references and not finding it too logical. As a boy is recognised and added to an existing column, the column referenced above will have been deleted to neaten up the table. The result is that poor Wolf looks like he's talking gobbledegook, whereas in effect he's spotting some great matches!

This is the updated Timeline snippet according to Wolf :
1/ CHRIS ROBSON - This boy's image wasn't matched to any other boy in that year. I agree that it could be Chris or Anthony Chadney, and updated accordingly.



2/ ALEX BARON - Unfortunately this cant be Alex. The image is a screenshot from Live like Horses in 1996. Alex was in that video and his actual image is here below :



The unknown boy we're trying to match is here below. They both appear together on the left group on the stage.



A while back I compiled a Conundrum relating to that video and I tried to recognise some of the unknown boys. It's one of the tabs at the bottom of the Timeline and can be found here if anyone wants a real challenge! :


3/ GARY FRANCIS - This boy's image wasn't matched to any other boy. I agree with Wolf that it is Chris Francis in 1993. Have updated accordingly.



4/ GEORGE TARLTON - Yes, I think Wolf has found another straggler! George was in the Vespera video - 2 shots of him in that below.
The third is also him in the same year 2001. I've kept this image as it's the clearest for recognition.

.....2001 >...

5/ FACE MATCH - I think these two are the same lad too. 1995 and 1997.



6/ JOE PLATT - I think there was an error here, and the image was misplaced. Thanks for pointing that out. I've deleted the virtual copy, and another similar image 2 years later that clearly didnt belong where I put it.

All that has tidied up the Timeline somewhat, and got rid of some of the unrecognised stragglers, so thanks to Wolf for that.

Next task is to incorporate some of the great images The Furby has recently discovered in a previously unknown YouTube video.
Anyone wanting the Timeline link, it's here:

[Dinedorelle]

I've been working a bit on those new images from The Furby and managed to improve many faces in the Timeline.
However I've come unstuck by adding a nice clear image of this chap, who I was convinced was Gary Francis when I first looked.



Now I dont think it's him but another unknown boy, as he looks like the boy I've placed him above in the next image:



Could we be wrong about the early 1992 image we thought was Gary?
Help me out Wolf! Or anyone else that may have an opinion!

[Wolf]

Could we be wrong about the early 1992 image we thought was Gary?
Help me out Wolf! Or anyone else that may have an opinion!

My intuition is that all of the images in question are Gary Francis. The 1993 odd-one-out's hair style could easily be explained by hair product, potentially even by the costume department. I suspect the pictures above and below that have been matched due to the apparent skin tone difference, however I think that's simply a result of the lighting.

The facial features are a dead match otherwise, and it would surely be too great a coincidence for Gary Francis and "Mr Unknown" to (seemingly) only ever appear when the other isn't present! (Assuming none of these pictures share the same source?)

[Wolf]

I apologise to anybody trying to localise these table references and not finding it too logical. (...) The result is that poor Wolf looks like he's talking gobbledegook, whereas in effect he's spotting some great matches!

Sorry, that's on me! I promise I'll figure out how to integrate pictures in the future That said, I do enjoy reading your responses. Thanks again for putting it all together and keeping it so interesting.

[Dinedorelle]

Could we be wrong about the early 1992 image we thought was Gary?
Help me out Wolf! Or anyone else that may have an opinion!

My intuition is that all of the images in question are Gary Francis. The 1993 odd-one-out's hair style could easily be explained by hair product, potentially even by the costume department. I suspect the pictures above and below that have been matched due to the apparent skin tone difference, however I think that's simply a result of the lighting.

The facial features are a dead match otherwise, and it would surely be too great a coincidence for Gary Francis and "Mr Unknown" to (seemingly) only ever appear when the other isn't present! (Assuming none of these pictures share the same source?)

Herein may lie the problem.
The two images below (highlighted in red) can't be the same boy, as they both appear in the same video, St Philip Choir Boys - Sunday School Medley,
The first boy appears at 0:13/3:00, and the second at 2:41/3:00.



So they are two different boys, with very similar features. The hair products and costumes don't really help a lot as you say, but I think for me, Gary had a chubbier face right until our last known image of him in 1995.
The boy in the third column above (if the theory holds up) is the Unknown boy in the second column, and not Gary Francis.

Two years later, in 1995, the boy in the second column appears in I Have A Dream That is where the image comes from.
He's not one of the singers at the front, and as far as I can fathom out, he's this boy at the back, probably standing on a box!



So, I'd like to propose the following based on those observations -
The boy we thought was Gary in early 1992, is the Unknown Boy, so that gives us this:



Of course, as usual, if anyone would like to give their opinion, it would be more than welcome.

[Wolf]

Oh boy, I had a feeling that might turn out to be the case, no easy solution after all! Very similar facial features indeed.

I am hesitant to say any more after such a critical blow to my reputation though the Early 1992 picture I'd still peg as Gary Francis due to the distinct hair parting.

Interestingly, having watched the video I'm more convinced that the existing 1993 "Gary Francis" is the imposter... such a difference a still can make.

[bamboo]

Great, thanks for that James.
I've added you into the Timeline now between the dates 1989 - 1995 where we're delighted to include you. You're right alongside Daren Geraghty, as it seems you were in Angel Voices at the same time.
Here's a resumé of your insertion :



and here :



If you think we've put you in the wrong place, please let us know.
Unfortunately we only have 2 out the 8 images of you over the years you were singing, so maybe you know of other videos where you appeared, where we could get some screenshots to complete your Timeline in more detail?

Where's the pic in 25DQ taken from? Is it from some video?

[Dinedorelle]

Great, thanks for that James.
I've added you into the Timeline now between the dates 1989 - 1995 where we're delighted to include you. You're right alongside Daren Geraghty, as it seems you were in Angel Voices at the same time.
Here's a resumé of your insertion :



and here :



If you think we've put you in the wrong place, please let us know.
Unfortunately we only have 2 out the 8 images of you over the years you were singing, so maybe you know of other videos where you appeared, where we could get some screenshots to complete your Timeline in more detail?

Where's the pic in 25DQ taken from? Is it from some video?

Bamboo, it's taken from one of Titchmarsh's videos, For the Beauty of the Earth,
The boy in question who is below, is at 1:00/3:04