The "I Love the UK" topic

[libera36]

You know, I was just thinking.... Aren't all British people football/soccer fans?? Haha, I'm just doing some serious American stereo typing, but doesn't soccer/football over there have a comparable fan base to the American football fanbase in the US? Are other sports big over there?? I watched several hurling matches on TV while I was in Ireland on vacation a couple of years ago, and it was both highly entertaining and, when I realised how easily players got hurt, highly shocking, and actually quite dreadful. I mean, in one match alone several people were injured with one or two being carried off the field... Talk about brutal

[kthomp]

Pfft says the history grad student!

You have a history teacher named "Mr Rhodes"?

his first name isn't "Cecil", is it? (oh that's a geeky history joke, all right )

his name was Dale and couldnt pronounce his R's so his last name was his curse

i didnt mind history if we were doing something other than the world wars, which was very rare

and to yorkie

i like all subjects other than history, pe < exercise is deadly and i didnt like DT much but hey i liked Science best

[kthomp]

You know, I was just thinking.... Aren't all British people football/soccer fans?? Haha, I'm just doing some serious American stereo typing, but doesn't soccer/football over there have a comparable fan base to the American football fanbase in the US? Are other sports big over there?? I watched several hurling matches on TV while I was in Ireland on vacation a couple of years ago, and it was both highly entertaining and, when I realised how easily players got hurt, highly shocking, and actually quite dreadful. I mean, in one match alone several people were injured with one or two being carried off the field... Talk about brutal

tbh your not far of the truth about the mass of football fans, it drives me insane the rivery between teams especially my local teams where there isnt a match between them where there isnt a fight.

as for other sports it all depends on the season is such as cricket will be popular when it is shown on tv the same with horseracing but they are no where near as popular as football and rugby, tennis is becomeing increasing popular and is very very popular when wimbledon is on

[libera36]

That's neat... Its rather difficult to see UK soccer/football over here, but I've seen Aresenal play on TV once and Fluham play on TV once... I can't remember who their opponents were, but I liked watching Arsenal because they played so skillfully (if thats a word...) I don't have a favorite team though, because I'm not really in to soccer/football as much as other sports.

[Yorkie]

I wouldn't be surprised if these days our leftie teachers were teaching kids about how awful British History was and what a terrible race we are!

If you're not adequately bashing yourselves, I know plenty of "reputable" academics on this side who are picking up the slack. I was in a horrid, horrid, horrid class this term (did I mention it was horrid?) that was nothing but British-bashing. To paraphrase my favourite quote: "Everything under Heaven--especially in Africa--is in utter chaos; the situation is wholly and completely the fault of the British. Hate them."

I was heartened, though, to read Niall Ferguson's wonderful Empire: How Britain Made the Modern World and listen to an Intelligence-Squared debate in which three distinguished British imperial historians (Ferguson, Andrew Roberts, and the venerable Lawrence James) quite literally wiped the floor with a group of extreme-leftist historians (and one journalist--some correspondent for the Independent.

For the record: I went down with the British ship in "Africa and the Extractive Industry 6395": I was the only "A minus" score in the class (A- is considered rather bad in grad school).

I would have liked to have heard that argument! Not to worry though, we're quite used to being hated by the rest of the world. To be honest I thought half of Europe dabbled in the dark continent so I'm not quite sure how we copped for all the bad press!

[Yorkie]

Something especially for you, Yorkie (making these things is my only real "talent" )

Ahh, bless you

[Yorkie]

i can say i am so fed up of history ( seeing as i left school last year)

we were fed some much history from junior school then to year 9

im so glad that we got the option of droping history, i dont think i could learn about the blitz anymore or stand my techer mr Rhodes anymore

Good Heavens. I love history. Especially the era of the American Civil War. I've been a CW re-enactor for 9 years or so now.
But everyone does have their own interests.
Glad you like the boys as much as the rest of us do.

Not an era that flags up much here in the UK but I do wonder what would have happened if Britain had joined in on the side of the South.........

[Yorkie]

You know, I was just thinking.... Aren't all British people football/soccer fans?? Haha, I'm just doing some serious American stereo typing, but doesn't soccer/football over there have a comparable fan base to the American football fanbase in the US? Are other sports big over there?? I watched several hurling matches on TV while I was in Ireland on vacation a couple of years ago, and it was both highly entertaining and, when I realised how easily players got hurt, highly shocking, and actually quite dreadful. I mean, in one match alone several people were injured with one or two being carried off the field... Talk about brutal

Oh yes, all baby boys are taken by their father to have the name of their football club & club crest tattooed on their left buttock before the age of one. Mine is Leeds United. I could post a picture if you like?

We are awash with sports over here (and I don't like to boast but most of the major sports in the world are either ours or based on games of ours ).

Two types of Rugby, cricket, golf, snooker, darts, tennis (for posh people who seem to be genetically crap at sport hence we have no decent players), badminton, table tennis, polo, croquet (last two i don't know anybody who plays them!), squash and, er, loads of others. Like cheese rolling.

Not hurling though which is as Irish as it comes.

[kjackson83]

i can say i am so fed up of history ( seeing as i left school last year)

we were fed some much history from junior school then to year 9

im so glad that we got the option of droping history, i dont think i could learn about the blitz anymore or stand my techer mr Rhodes anymore

Good Heavens. I love history. Especially the era of the American Civil War. I've been a CW re-enactor for 9 years or so now.
But everyone does have their own interests.
Glad you like the boys as much as the rest of us do.

Not an era that flags up much here in the UK but I do wonder what would have happened if Britain had joined in on the side of the South.........

Britain did side with the South during the war--economically and politically, but not militarily...Confederate blockade runners shipped out southern cotton to London via Mexico and New Orleans. A friend of mine here at university is actually writing her dissertation over British perceptions of the south as seen through The Times newspaper's reporting of the war (and yes, she's already been gently criticised for assuming that The Times spoke for the whole country ).

[kjackson83]

I wouldn't be surprised if these days our leftie teachers were teaching kids about how awful British History was and what a terrible race we are!

If you're not adequately bashing yourselves, I know plenty of "reputable" academics on this side who are picking up the slack. I was in a horrid, horrid, horrid class this term (did I mention it was horrid?) that was nothing but British-bashing. To paraphrase my favourite quote: "Everything under Heaven--especially in Africa--is in utter chaos; the situation is wholly and completely the fault of the British. Hate them."

I was heartened, though, to read Niall Ferguson's wonderful Empire: How Britain Made the Modern World and listen to an Intelligence-Squared debate in which three distinguished British imperial historians (Ferguson, Andrew Roberts, and the venerable Lawrence James) quite literally wiped the floor with a group of extreme-leftist historians (and one journalist--some correspondent for the Independent.

For the record: I went down with the British ship in "Africa and the Extractive Industry 6395": I was the only "A minus" score in the class (A- is considered rather bad in grad school).

I would have liked to have heard that argument! Not to worry though, we're quite used to being hated by the rest of the world. To be honest I thought half of Europe dabbled in the dark continent so I'm not quite sure how we copped for all the bad press!

There was an interesting question put to the journalist (one Jasmin Alibhai-Brown) on panel by, of all people, a schoolage child from Essex, Matthew Connor:

"You said: 'the British Empire corrupted the already corrupt and brought poverty to India.' You claim that the Empire was worse than that of Robert Mugabe...or is it just that, after these countries--supposedly destroyed by the Empire--gained freedom, they have been unable to rule themselves, and because of their mistakes, they now seek to blame the Empire?"

Hope for the future, it would seem.

[Yorkie]

Britain did side with the South during the war--economically and politically, but not militarily...Confederate blockade runners shipped out southern cotton to London via Mexico and New Orleans. A friend of mine here at university is actually writing her dissertation over British perceptions of the south as seen through The Times newspaper's reporting of the war (and yes, she's already been gently criticised for assuming that The Times spoke for the whole country ).

Yes, I meant military aid. Fortunately, supplies of cotton started to arrive from Egypt which negated the need to go to war for trade purposes & of course there was the slavery issue which was very much against the grain in Britain in those days (I assume the debaters in the earlier post gave no credit for Britain leading the way to abolish slavery and the slave trade).

[Yorkie]

There was an interesting question put to the journalist (one Jasmin Alibhai-Brown) on panel by, of all people, a schoolage child from Essex, Matthew Connor:

"You said: 'the British Empire corrupted the already corrupt and brought poverty to India.' You claim that the Empire was worse than that of Robert Mugabe...or is it just that, after these countries--supposedly destroyed by the Empire--gained freedom, they have been unable to rule themselves, and because of their mistakes, they now seek to blame the Empire?"

Hope for the future, it would seem.

Hehehe, good lad. I'm familiar with her and can't say I care much for her opinions. She is one of those infuriating people who persist in revising history by viewing it through 21st century standards.

Do we hate Italians because they invaded us 2000 years ago and killed off large numbers of Britons? Do we hate the Scandinavians because of the Viking raids 1000 years ago? Do we judge the rape and pillage against todays laws or put it in context with the period?

I hate to say it but I think the US is starting to suffer the backlash for being the ultimate power in today's world - blamed for everything that is wrong and ignored for all the good stuff that you do.

p.s. before anybody asks, yes we still hate the French!

[kjackson83]

Britain did side with the South during the war--economically and politically, but not militarily...Confederate blockade runners shipped out southern cotton to London via Mexico and New Orleans. A friend of mine here at university is actually writing her dissertation over British perceptions of the south as seen through The Times newspaper's reporting of the war (and yes, she's already been gently criticised for assuming that The Times spoke for the whole country ).

Yes, I meant military aid. Fortunately, supplies of cotton started to arrive from Egypt which negated the need to go to war for trade purposes & of course there was the slavery issue which was very much against the grain in Britain in those days (I assume the debaters in the earlier post gave no credit for Britain leading the way to abolish slavery and the slave trade).

No, credit is not given to the British for ending the slave trade...the claim on this end is that native resistance gradually made slavery too expensive in the long run for the Europeans.

Of course, there's always Andrew Roberts (who's from Surrey, incidentally ) :

It was, in fact, when you go again and again to the original sources, the rulership of the elites of these west African countries who did the slave selling. Again and again, it was the local elites who were selling to the Europeans. And who got rid of the slave trade? The Royal Navy.

Sanity makes a comeback?

[kjackson83]

There was an interesting question put to the journalist (one Jasmin Alibhai-Brown) on panel by, of all people, a schoolage child from Essex, Matthew Connor:

"You said: 'the British Empire corrupted the already corrupt and brought poverty to India.' You claim that the Empire was worse than that of Robert Mugabe...or is it just that, after these countries--supposedly destroyed by the Empire--gained freedom, they have been unable to rule themselves, and because of their mistakes, they now seek to blame the Empire?"

Hope for the future, it would seem.

Hehehe, good lad. I'm familiar with her and can't say I care much for her opinions. She is one of those infuriating people who persist in revising history by viewing it through 21st century standards.

Do we hate Italians because they invaded us 2000 years ago and killed off large numbers of Britons? Do we hate the Scandinavians because of the Viking raids 1000 years ago? Do we judge the rape and pillage against todays laws or put it in context with the period?

I hate to say it but I think the US is starting to suffer the backlash for being the ultimate power in today's world - blamed for everything that is wrong and ignored for all the good stuff that you do.

p.s. before anybody asks, yes we still hate the French!

There's a group on FB: Things the UK does better than the US. Nr. 13 or so is: "Hate the French. No matter how much Americans try, they will never hate the French as much as we do."

Ms Alibhai-Brown is crackers...through and through (but it's the Independent--do you really expect better?).

Yes, we over here catch our fair share of the flak in geopolitics, but a real difference between "us" and "you" is this: there's very little in the way of a tradition of self-criticism over here. We aren't adapted to taking a constructively-critical eye to our own history. In our minds, American history is simply one triumph after another, one expansion of rights and privileges after another--and to an extent, that is true--but the result is, we have a kind of collective, national inability to look at our nation's historical faults, as well as its historical assets.

The UK--Oxford in particular--is the polar opposite: over there, self-criticism is WAY out of control in some places...seriously now, let's face it: British history isn't exactly a Walt Disney film, but for the love of all things holy, it's not Mein Kampf or a Bosch painting, either--the UK battled the slave trade, the Holocaust, and apartheid...in a space of about 150 years.

I've always thought, as a historian myself, that the critical view the British people seem to adopt vis-a-vis their country comes from an immense national memory--55BC--2009 AD is a lot more to digest and reflect on than 1776-2009...

[Yorkie]

FB? Go on, enlighten me.

I think a major difference between our two societies is that Britain (or perhaps more accurately England) isn't as loudly or brashly (or blindly?) as patriotic. We get slightly uncomfortable at the hand on heart, salute the flag thing (except for odd moments of celebration). There would be no pledge of allegiance at the start of school over here.

What I'm getting at is that people don't feel compelled to join in for fear of being ostracised - we quite like to encourage eccentricity. People might be mildly appalled at somebody slagging off the country but they would, of course, be too polite to say so!