Libera Members Time Line

[Dinedorelle]

As Liberation has kindly let us have access to better quality images, I've seen something else that clearly confirms who it isn't.
I can't find a source that names this boy differently than Anthony Chadney, so I'm swimming against the current here, but it can't be him.

Everyone is now in agreement for all the other boys' names, so BOY B can only be either Anthony Chadney or Matthew Horsewood.
So to recap, this is the BOY B we need to identify :

EDIT: We now know that the original list was speculation, so some of the information below has now been found to be incorrect.



In a post above I showed a picture of one possibility, Anthony, a screenshot from a 2001 video, the same year our BOY B picture was taken. Here it is again :



I can see there's a resemblance in haircuts, but look at the nostrils. Every photo I have of Anthony from 1998-2006 shows he has slightly elongated nostrils.
See here : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =EM29:EM45

Our BOY B has round nostrils, smaller ears, and although his fringe is similar, Anthony has a cowlick (see photo above).

So I have to conclude it must be Matthew Horsewood, and Anthony wasn't at the photoshoot.

Furthermore, I've also found another clue to bolster the proof against it being Anthony.
This first image is a screenshot from a Libera video in 1999 (2 years before) of an UNKNOWN boy that looks very similar to BOY B. Our BOY B (2001) is alongside for comparison.



The round nostrils and nose shape are the same, haircuts are identical, eyebrows are pale and the same shape, and his own right eye is uncannily the same shape. I think this is the same boy but 2 years apart.
I'd be interested to hear the opinions from bamboo, Liberation, Amie_Hill and The Furby and anyone else that may want to disprove my theory!

[Liberation]

I admit you do have a good point there. I am open for changes but it would mean that for some 15 years a lot of Libera fans were wrong about some names. While you were posting your previous post I was looking on an older pc of some pics of Anthony, chris, simon and joseph Platt and I decided to post them also, I hope it helps. I don't have pics of Matthew horsewood.
The first pics are from Christopher and the second of Anthony in the next post I place a picture of Joseph and simon although I think we already now the answer on that one but you can tell they look like each other. I noticed on the spreadsheet link some foto's are posted there but just to show the similarity.

[Liberation]

Here the pics of joseph and the 4 in the corner are from simon.

Joseph Platt and Simon Lewis.png (551.34 KiB) Viewed 15775 times

Joseph Platt and Simon Lewis.png (551.34 KiB) Viewed 15775 times

[Liberation]

Great analysis Dinedorelle - the photos you showed sure do look like Matthew and Jake. Thanks for the photos Liberation! Just curious, where did you get those photos from? Did they come with the Luminosa CD as well?

No, they don't, the only picture in the luminosa insert was the picture first posted here were G. Tarleton has his hat on.
The other pictures are from foto shoot sessions posted on the Libera site back than.
Back than, every studio album had his own url. on the net with foto shoots and some shoots from video's as well.

Not post related but I read somewhere that the Luminosa album mentioned 15 singers? In my copy there are no names besides
the solo parts so it's pure speculation and on the mini-angels blogspot someone anonymous mentioned michael Gray but I've never heard of him (but who am I ?) So again it's pure speculation I think.

[Dinedorelle]

Great analysis Dinedorelle - the photos you showed sure do look like Matthew and Jake. Thanks for the photos Liberation! Just curious, where did you get those photos from? Did they come with the Luminosa CD as well?

No, they don't, the only picture in the luminosa insert was the picture first posted here were G. Tarleton has his hat on.
The other pictures are from foto shoot sessions posted on the Libera site back than.
Back than, every studio album had his own url. on the net with foto shoots and some shoots from video's as well.

Not post related but I read somewhere that the Luminosa album mentioned 15 singers? In my copy there are no names besides
the solo parts so it's pure speculation and on the mini-angels blogspot someone anonymous mentioned michael Gray but I've never heard of him (but who am I ?) So again it's pure speculation I think.

I do think that Michael Gray may have been in the St Philips Boys Choir or Angel Voices. I also saw the name in the same place as you.
After a bit of detective work, these days he seems to still be in the music industry if the article I read about him is correct.
He was born in Croydon (where many of the choirboys have come from), and is aged..... well it varies! According to Wikipedia he's either 53 (English version) or 40 (French version).
Even if he's 40, he wouldn't be a contemporary of the boys in this photo, as their ages now range between 28 and 32. Unless he was accompanying them as Simon Beston was?

[The Furby]

I'd be interested to hear the opinions from bamboo, Liberation, Amie_Hill and The Furby and anyone else that may want to disprove my theory!

Thank you Dinedorelle & Liberation for all this identifying speculation, it's a very interesting read!
Even if haven't taken part much in the conversation so far I'm much interested in matching faces to names of previous Libera members as I plan to expand the "former members" section at Libera Passion. Thank you Liberation for unearthing these "new" old pictures!

Boy C was identified on Libera Passion as Matthew Horsewood.

I actually listed him as Matthew Horsewood as he was identified as such on your Timeline and some other site I can't remember about. So we may be wrong on this one - maybe I should remove the picture so that nobody gets confused. The name Michael Gray is totally new to me.

I can see there's a resemblance in haircuts, but look at the nostrils. Every photo I have of Anthony from 1998-2006 shows he has slightly elongated nostrils.
See here : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =EM29:EM45

Our BOY B has round nostrils, smaller ears, and although his fringe is similar, Anthony has a cowlick (see photo above).

So I have to conclude it must be Matthew Horsewood, and Anthony wasn't at the photoshoot.

I fully agree with you on this, boy B can't be Anthony Chadney - the features you mention plus the shape of the head don't match. I also agree with him and the boy in the video you mentioned being one and the same. I'm not sure about boy C being Jake S though, to me it could as well be someone else, but really I can't tell.

***

Also I've been looking at Dinedorelle's file, I'm interested in knowing how you managed to find this boy's name?

[Amie_Hill]

This is fascinating. My two cents: Boy C does not look at all like Jake Shortall to me. Like many responding, I've never heard of Michael Gray. Is there any evidence of him besides that one mention in Mini-Angels? Keep up the good work, everybody.

[Dinedorelle]

It's so good to get such a lot of excellent feedback from those in the 'know'. It's a lonely road delving into the past by yourself!

The ongoing goal of my post here is to collate as much information about the 'old boys' (from whatever sensible source is available), and lay it out in an easily understood format so that it can be used as a reference source.

It's become pretty apparent over the past few days, that information we've all taken for granted as being 'gospel' from the distant past, sometimes isn't really that.
A perfect example would be for this latest challenge of recognising the boys in the 2001 photoshoot. 'Liberation' quite rightly points out that their names are 'pure speculation'. This Luminosa album (in either version) shows no singers' names, just the soloists, so who do we think originally put the names to these boys? This is anyone's guess of course, but the straightforward fact of the matter is, that in this particular case those people made some errors, and these have been passed down over the years that have elapsed since they were named. Now we all believe these facts - I certainly did, until I noticed a few discrepancies.

I completely understand members reticence to alter the names, even under pretty overwhelming evidence that the boys named aren't actually them.
Surely it would be a wise and honourable way forward to name them correctly? Not only for the boys who no doubt trained very hard to get their place in the choir, (some for 7 years or more) but also for those reading posts now, and in the years to come?

This is fascinating. My two cents: Boy C does not look at all like Jake Shortall to me. Like many responding, I've never heard of Michael Gray. Is there any evidence of him besides that one mention in Mini-Angels? Keep up the good work, everybody.

Well I wholeheartedly agree with you Amie_Hill, and The Furby concurs too. I reached that spurious conclusion because he was the only boy left on the singer's list that it could have been, but I always had a niggling doubt. That infamous list swayed my perception somewhat, and I shan't be caught out again! I'll be starting from scratch.
I'm going to try and match his face with some earlier captures I have, and see where it takes us.

Thank you to those who are contributing.

[john45]

I do think that Michael Gray may have been in the St Philips Boys Choir or Angel Voices. I also saw the name in the same place as you.
After a bit of detective work, these days he seems to still be in the music industry if the article I read about him is correct.
He was born in Croydon (where many of the choirboys have come from), and is aged..... well it varies! According to Wikipedia he's either 53 (English version) or 40 (French version).

Hi John, not me I’m afraid

Best,

Michael

www.michaelgrayofficial.com

[Dinedorelle]

I do think that Michael Gray may have been in the St Philips Boys Choir or Angel Voices. I also saw the name in the same place as you.
After a bit of detective work, these days he seems to still be in the music industry if the article I read about him is correct.
He was born in Croydon (where many of the choirboys have come from), and is aged..... well it varies! According to Wikipedia he's either 53 (English version) or 40 (French version).

Hi John, not me I’m afraid

Best,

Michael

www.michaelgrayofficial.com

Excellent! Thanks for that john45. Always good to test out a theory, even if this one's come back as a big negative!

I wonder why his name was added originally though? Does anyone know the person who runs Mini Angels Blogspot where it was found? It's not clear if that person named him or it was 'Lucy and Anon' who named him. If they're still around can we not ask?
Whichever way we look at this, it's a little unnerving as it seems these people got a lot correct, as we still aren't agreed for the boy we're naming Matthew Horsewood. Maybe he is actually Matthew Winter? What does everyone think? Some proposals below.

Our confirmed picture of Matthew Winter by Ben Crawley is here, but the original has been compressed vertically which makes his face slightly fatter than it should be. I've modified it by the same amount as I have for a very well known face in that video to get the dimensions correct. This is what is gives :



Photos from late 1998, 1998, 1999, 2001

[bamboo]

I wonder why his name was added originally though? Does anyone know the person who runs Mini Angels Blogspot where it was found? It's not clear if that person named him or it was 'Lucy and Anon' who named him. If they're still around can we not ask?

Whichever way we look at this, it's a little unnerving as it seems these people got a lot correct, as we still aren't agreed for the boy we're naming Matthew Horsewood. Maybe he is actually Matthew Winter? What does everyone think? Some proposals below.

Our confirmed picture of Matthew Winter by Ben Crawley is here, but the original has been compressed vertically which makes his face slightly fatter than it should be. I've modified it by the same amount as I have for a very well known face in that video to get the dimensions correct. This is what is gives :



Photos from 1996, 1998, 1999, 2001

Person manning mini-angels which has been defunct for quite awhile alr is Lauren. I messaged her a few years ago over something else, but have yet to get her reply, so I'm thinking it isn't quite possible to communicate with her via the blog. Not sure if anyone has any other way... I believe she got the info from an anonymous person who wrote a comment on that particular post though...

All 4 photos look like different people to me haha. Not sure where you got the photo on the extreme left from, but I remember seeing that face in the 'All things bright and beautiful' video on Youtube, where they were visiting some people in the hospital.

I'm just wondering if it is possible to run through the pictures and names with the older boys (like Steven Geraghty and Sam Coates, who still help out with Libera, or possibly Robert Prizeman and Andrew Winter?) at one of Libera's concerts, like the upcoming June one... If they do remember and can help, it will certainly authenticate a lot of info!

[Dinedorelle]

Person manning mini-angels which has been defunct for quite awhile alr is Lauren. I messaged her a few years ago over something else, but have yet to get her reply, so I'm thinking it isn't quite possible to communicate with her via the blog. Not sure if anyone has any other way... I believe she got the info from an anonymous person who wrote a comment on that particular post though...

All 4 photos look like different people to me haha. Not sure where you got the photo on the extreme left from, but I remember seeing that face in the 'All things bright and beautiful' video on Youtube, where they were visiting some people in the hospital.

I'm just wondering if it is possible to run through the pictures and names with the older boys (like Steven Geraghty and Sam Coates, who still help out with Libera, or possibly Robert Prizeman and Andrew Winter?) at one of Libera's concerts, like the upcoming June one... If they do remember and can help, it will certainly authenticate a lot of info!

Thanks bamboo. I missed the comments underneath the post on Lauren's site.
The Anon person who posted this sounds like they know what they're talking about.



As for asking the alumni, yes that would work of course - but surely members have exhausted that avenue already haven't they?

[The Furby]

Photos from 1996, 1998, 1999, 2001

Unnerving indeed
2001 actually look like an older 1998 to me, with shorter hair but the same look in the eyes, and similar mouth shape.
Could the age span work too? - I'd give him 7-8 in the 1st pic so he'd be 12-13 in the last.

As for asking the alumni, yes that would work of course - but surely members have exhausted that avenue already haven't they?

I wouldn't be sure they have

[Dinedorelle]

As for asking the alumni, yes that would work of course - but surely members have exhausted that avenue already haven't they?

I wouldn't be sure they have

Well, that puts a different light on many things. Am I missing something here?
I have read multiple posts on privacy issues of the Libera members past and present, and I entirely agree with everything that has been said.
They sang in a popular choir, but don't want that to define their lives for ever by people wanting to know everything - Tom Cully is a good example.

I notice that you asked Ben Crawley in September 2019 to try and recognise some old boys and he did for 2 of them.
Does that mean you actually know him or just sent an email and hoped for a response?
Whichever, he was gracious enough to provide us with some names, but stipulated that he couldn't divulge others as he'd lost contact with them. Chances are he probably did know some of their names. We must absolutely respect this, and I for one wouldn't want to keep hassling alumni for names just because we want to complete our puzzle. For me personally, it's an interesting occasional hobby; they might not have the same interest, especially for those that have no links with the modern day set-up.
Another who gave some names was Oliver Putland, so I think certain old members are still willing to help, even if in a very minor way, if they deem it proper.
It's a shame because apart from Robert Prizeman who's been there since the beginning, Sam Coates, Steven Geraghty and Ben Crawley have spent literally all their lives with the group and would fill in so many gaps so easily. Especially for the period from 1995 - 2000 where some of the data is highly sketchy at best.

If people think it's a feasible suggestion to broach the topic with them, maybe we could start with those we should definitely NOT ask. I'd put everyone on that list, but several here have suggested Liam O'Kane and others.
Do members of this Forum know who we could ask for identification without causing too much alarm?
If we got together something more professional looking, and explained it was for reference purposes, would they help?
Perhaps when we have all the facts at hand, we could just do one big ask rather that approaching in a piecemeal manner?
Many questions to answer before attempting this. What does everyone think? Good or very bad idea?

[Amie_Hill]

I think one big "ask" is he way to go, after all possible other connections have been exhausted. Meanwhile, here are some good-quality early photos (from "Thora") for ID purposes,