Libera Dreams

I think at this stage I could be convinced either way. I'd like it to be Thomas, only because I feel that so far, that he has gone the same way as DC, in that he has shown amazing potential, got some solos, but never made that transition to major solo, at least for Libera. (which in some ways echoes your point about dominance of particular soloists at any point in time) DC got a Tosca solo this year which he absolutely nailed, (only just over two years since he sang his only major solo for Libera, in Ely), and he totally confirmed my opinion of him, as an unfulfilled talent.

I am aware that Thomas has done a major solo this year for his other choir, but due to my rule of only-Schola, I missed it... but there are obviously clear signs of potential. Particularly given the family connection! Lets see what the future brings.

No one would be happier than me if it is Thomas, and he sings it at SSS this Xmas. I think it could be quite amazing...

Thank you Yorkie for informing us!

Great singing in all the songs. Amazing that they sang Ave Verum, very well sung and interesting to hear it with less instruments. I was also pleasantly surprised that they sang Bruckner’s Locus Iste, it’s a piece I really like. Robert Prizeman’s Songs of Praise Toccata was played by the organ at the end, that’s no coincidence.

I finally heard the Ave Verum tonight... I would go for Joseph or Ben (but less likely). Quite a good performance anyway, in my opinion. I hope it means the song will be back for the December concert

I don't think it really sounds like Thomas M, I've never heard his voice sound so strong, but it would be great if it happened to be him ! The cristal clear notes could be him, sure. I hope to hear more from him in December and hopefully on the future album.

I must admit I dislike Ave Verum and am hoping it does not appear in concert or the next album. Sorry to anyone this offends

I also think that the recorded singer in the service sounds like Joseph. It is easier to hear his vocal timbre on the very loud "Jesu" towards the last chorus of the song, and it sounds so much like Joseph to me.

I am in agreement with everyone that I would love to hear Thomas M sing the solo. I actually think that the piece suits him better than it does Joseph. There are similarities between the two brothers' voices.

gingerthedog1 wrote: ↑<span title="Wed Aug 07, 2024 8:44 pm">3 months ago</span> I must admit I dislike Ave Verum and am hoping it does not appear in concert or the next album. Sorry to anyone this offends

Thems is fightin' words!

Regardless, I'd love to hear it properly recorded or performed by whichever boy.

gingerthedog1 wrote: ↑<span title="Wed Aug 07, 2024 8:44 pm">3 months ago</span> I must admit I dislike Ave Verum and am hoping it does not appear in concert or the next album. Sorry to anyone this offends

Get in the Wickerman, now!! And take this flaming torch with you...


I would be surprised, but I have already heard that before, and well music is subjective and personal, and that's what makes music so amazing.

I am still astounded that, at least from (the lack of) forum responses, no-one but me seems to like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zCQeCZ5-L0

Which to my ear is an amazing House track, and that's even without knowing who sings on it...! Meh. As I said, people have different preferences and that's fine and that's what makes music more interesting.

Citlec wrote: ↑<span title="Wed Aug 07, 2024 10:08 pm">3 months ago</span> and well music is subjective and personal, and that's what makes music so amazing.

We all certainly do have different tastes. For example, I'm forever surprised that most Libera fans (at least in my experience) are so cold on genres such as opera. Not to mention some for whom Libera is the only choir they enjoy, whereas others are choral music fans through and through.

But that's what makes things interesting because everyone brings their own perspectives and tastes to the table. Libera has something for everyone it seems.

By the way, I did like that song you linked. It's bouncy and fun, but I must have neglected to say so.

Surpinto wrote: ↑<span title="Wed Aug 07, 2024 10:31 pm">3 months ago</span>

We all certainly do have different tastes. For example, I'm forever surprised that most Libera fans (at least in my experience) are so cold on genres such as opera. Not to mention some for whom Libera is the only choir they enjoy, whereas others are choral music fans through and through.

I have a very wide ranging taste in music but death metal & opera leave me cold. I should say most death metal and most opera because there are tracks in each genre that I do appreciate.

Honestly, with opera it is the very heavy vibrato of the Sopranos that I struggle with and I much prefer the tone of a treble. There are boy Sopranos that I didn't gel with because of the vibrato they use. Just to really confuse you, I don't mind the vibrato as much with Tenor or Bass voices.

And then we have the Countertenor voice. Love the sound of it as part of an English choir (in fact it is essential to that sound) but struggle with solo performance of that voice type.

Yorkie wrote: ↑<span title="Thu Aug 08, 2024 1:24 pm">3 months ago</span>

Surpinto wrote: ↑<span title="Wed Aug 07, 2024 10:31 pm">3 months ago</span>

We all certainly do have different tastes. For example, I'm forever surprised that most Libera fans (at least in my experience) are so cold on genres such as opera. Not to mention some for whom Libera is the only choir they enjoy, whereas others are choral music fans through and through.

I have a very wide ranging taste in music but death metal & opera leave me cold. I should say most death metal and most opera because there are tracks in each genre that I do appreciate.

Honestly, with opera it is the very heavy vibrato of the Sopranos that I struggle with and I much prefer the tone of a treble. There are boy Sopranos that I didn't gel with because of the vibrato they use. Just to really confuse you, I don't mind the vibrato as much with Tenor or Bass voices.

And then we have the Countertenor voice. Love the sound of it as part of an English choir (in fact it is essential to that sound) but struggle with solo performance of that voice type.

I was sort of thinking of you when I wrote what I did , but obviously you're not the only one who complains about female sopranos vibrato; whereas for me that's part of the coloratura of the music. I'm perfectly fine with it from either treble or adult, but from previous discussions both at LDF and elsewhere I think I'm in the minority as most Libera fans have the identical complaint that you do about vibrato. As I said I find the differences in taste fascinating and I love hearing what others like or don't like even if it's the diametric opposite of my own preferences.

No death metal or solo countertenors for me either though....that can be really grating lol.

But what's even MORE interesting, and perhaps even befuddling for me (and I don't mean this as an insult to anybody!), is that for so many fans Libera is the only choir they enjoy. Like, yeah, Libera's music is unique and special "they're not like other choirs" but at the same time they're rooted enough in the English choral tradition that I personally struggle to understand why some don't care for the liturgical music, of the sort they sang in Bournemouth, but enjoy Libera generally. Obviously we know that doesn't apply to you, but I'm just speaking about fans in the broad sense.

Another example (though this one is more understandable) is those Libera fans who do enjoy some choral music generally aside from Libera, but don't care whatsoever for the chanted and polyphonic pieces by those like Palestrina or Byrd of the sort recently linked elsewhere at LDF. Since Libera's style is so deeply rooted and influenced by both medieval and renaissance music styles (among others of course) that always confused me.

With all of that said, you know what song I finally decided to listen to after years of hating it? "Stabat Mater" from Hope. Suddenly I find it not bad at all so maybe there's hope yet for everyone.

Also not a fan of countertenor solos, they grate on my ears, generally. Also not a fan of vibrato, though not exclusively, it has its place and can enhance some pieces. Ruins a Fauré Pie Jesu though... viewtopic.php?p=62356#p62356

As for Renaissance polyphony... I don't mind a bit of it now and again, but it really is just that. Now and again. I simply don't find it engaging enough to want to listen to it often. *shoulder shrug*

Though I'm not as bad as one Amazon reviewer, for a recent LOS album...

Amazon Customer
2.0 out of 5 stars Unimpressed
Sounded like the same hymn throughout the recording.

Citlec wrote: ↑<span title="Tue Aug 06, 2024 6:40 pm">4 months ago</span> I think at this stage I could be convinced either way. I'd like it to be Thomas, only because I feel that so far, that he has gone the same way as DC, in that he has shown amazing potential, got some solos, but never made that transition to major solo, at least for Libera. (which in some ways echoes your point about dominance of particular soloists at any point in time) DC got a Tosca solo this year which he absolutely nailed, (only just over two years since he sang his only major solo for Libera, in Ely), and he totally confirmed my opinion of him, as an unfulfilled talent.

I am aware that Thomas has done a major solo this year for his other choir, but due to my rule of only-Schola, I missed it... but there are obviously clear signs of potential. Particularly given the family connection! Lets see what the future brings.

To be fair in DC's case I think it was just that he left Libera very soon after that. I think Ely was his last concert? Otherwise I think he would have become a major soloist. He sang the last lines of Carol of the Bells at Christmas 2020 then by next Christmas which due to Covid was his next concert he was singing the descant for Vespera having also recorded it for his first album with Libera. While the descant isn't the main solo in Vespera it's still quite demanding to sing live, especially opening a concert with it so I would still count it as quite big. And then in Ely he had Angele Dei and some other high notes. I think judging by that trajectory he would have quickly became a major soloist along with Joseph, Nathan and Morgan.

Thomas M's case is different and I do find it strange that he doesn't get more solos given that he began singing them fairly early on in his Libera career but I'm sure there are reasons. Certain boys' voices suit certain pieces better, pieces change as the repertoire does. boys may not want as many solos or go through a patch of that (thinking of Oskar H who did a lot of solo descanting in his first concerts and now seems to do less). Maybe Thomas M prefers soloing when he has the music in front of him as he would have in his other choir or finds too many solos stressful. Every boy is different. And while of course Libera can't accommodate every boy's every wish my feeling is that they do try to find at least a small solo for most boys who want one or even a duet if they're not confident enough to solo thinking of what they're doing with Love Shine a Light at the inute.

I like your point of view Cat-a-tonic !

I also read many times that Freddie M did not get the chance to shine before the incredible "Ave Verum", but we had heard nothing from him and it might be that his voice matured lately or he wasn't feeling comfortable with solos at this point. Thomas M has had quite the number of solos actually if I refer to Libera Passion (french website) :

Stay With Me (avec Laurence Davey (déchant) (Ely 2022, Korean Tour 2023) ou avec Luke Batteson-Dalpiaz & Laurence Davey (déchant) (Summer Tour 2022) ou avec Pietro Vergani et Joseph Hill (Japan Tour 2023))
Always With You (high notes) (avec Morgan Wiltshire & Joseph Hill (Summer Tour 2022))
I am the day (high notes) avec Morgan Wiltshire & Daniel White (notes basses) (US Tour 2023)
Far Away (Japan Tour 2023)
The Angel Gabriel (avec Pietro Vergani, Saint John's Smith Square 2023)
Veni veni Emmanuel (high notes) (avec Victor Wiggin, Saint John's Smith Square 2023)
Carol of the Bells (high notes) (avec Cameron Birmingham et final Caleb Slater, Saint John's Smith Square 2023)
Sacris Solemnis - high final notes (avec Freddie Howarth (UK Summer Tour 2024))
God Only Knows avec Joseph Hill et Nathan Slater (UK Summer Tour 2024)

Not so many Libera members get so many opportunities. Like, I really loved Laurence Davey's solos but he had less than that.

I think I have heard Thomas on every solo except "Far Away" (which I very much wish I had attended). From what I have witnessed, he is very good at short solos, especially high notes ("Veni veni Emmanuel" was extraordinary ). Longer solos I have heard, like "Always With You", or "God Only Knows", were certainly good but not as remarkable. I actually feel like his voice needs maturing, and... well, he looks very young though we know he is not. It might be that when he grows so will his voice. The risk being, a short soloist carreer just like his brother. We human beings certainly do not have control over everything... I think Libera's staff is doing quite the job to allow every boy's potential to grow and shine, they show a variety of soloists. I trust them in their choices. And I don't believe the boys are unhappy with that management.
Now let's cross fingers for a great solo record for Thomas M on the next album

Thank you for compiling that list Padmachou. Yes looking at it Thomas has done quite a lot compared to many members. While he hasn't dominated the soloing the way Joseph and Morgan and Nathan have, he's had something in most concerts. More really than boys like Cameron and Lewis Q though they have perhaps had individually bigger ones. But then Far Away is also quite big and not at all an easy solo.

I think Freddie was unlucky with the timing of the pandemic. For his second and third years in Libera they did about 3 concerts and that includes the mini online one where they only did 6 songs and understandably stuck to their experienced soloists. They did a similar thing at Christmas 2020 where Freddie did actually get a solo, well a duet on Noel Nouvelet. Then no concerts for a year again but in the meantime he records Sacris Solemnis then sings that at Christmas 2021. If I remember that concert correctly no one had more than a couple of solos - they were quite spread out with some newcomers coming through. And then in 2022 they only had 2 concerts. So at the time when Freddie could have been developing into a concert soloist he didn't really have much opportunity and that was no one at Libera's fault.

I think you're also right about his voice developing later though. He did a good job with the duet in 2020 and a lovely one with Sacris Solemnis but I wouldn't have said they were outstanding whereas Ave Verum was something very special indeed that his voice had clearly grown into. The timing was perfect. As you said Thomas may be the same. Clearly boys' voices and confidence develop at different rates. Some boys like Daniel W, Luca, Daniel C and Joseph H are soloing from 9 or 10 years of age. Others take time to develop but are worth the wait, thinking of Rocco and Tadgh who grew to have very distinctive and fine voices. And I'm sure there are others.