Libera Dreams

I think I covered your first point in my last response, Dani. Everyone has an opinion obviously but there is a big difference between having that opinion and expressing it in a manner where it is available to read by anyone in the world for posterity.

I don't think it's productive to lie and I don't think it's generally productive to call out little kids by name for criticism. With those qualifiers aside, I completely agree with you.

It comes with being part of group such as Libera........it comes with the territory.......to be on a national stage and in the eyes of the public comes scrutiny and criticism and also fame and praise......I'm sure the boys parents knew of all of this before they joined........it's just part of it.....either you can handle it.....or you can't........

tom413 wrote:
I think I covered your first point in my last response, Dani. Everyone has an opinion obviously but there is a big difference between having that opinion and expressing it in a manner where it is available to read by anyone in the world for posterity.

I don't think it's productive to lie and I don't think it's generally productive to call out little kids by name for criticism. With those qualifiers aside, I completely agree with you.
While we may all slip occasionally , we have been asked to be more vigilant about singling out individuals and I will try to comply and challenge others who refuse to.

I will admit i have sometimes singled out boys when i did not think they performed as well as they could but im also quick to praise them when they are good/brilliant.

And because of there age you have to be careful but then they are performers and so criticism is part and parcel.

tom413 wrote:The same reviewer also said it was Matthew's first solo which was woefully inaccurate. I have personally heard Matthew deliver that part 7 times now in the last 2 years. His delivery has been consistently fine all 7 times.

tom413 wrote: Whether that's what he meant or not, it isn't what he wrote.

Either I didn't make myself clear or you are dodging the point.
My criticism of his review is not about whether he is a lesser fan or not but rather about whether or not he has a responsibility to gain some knowledge about what he is writing about, before he has his writings published.

He wrote "Matthew R-A did Salva Me. This is the first time I heard he did a solo." which part in this sentence is not clear to you that the reviewer MEANT to say that it was HIS first time hearing Mattew RA singing Salve Me?

Certain components of the concert didn't meet his expectation.
Certain components of his review didn't meet your expectation.

If this review was just full of criticism and had no appreciation of Libera whatsoever, I wouldn't have posted it on my blog. However he had many great points in the review and clearly appreciated the boys and the concert itself. Can we just tolerate differences in opinions?

tom413 wrote:

dani wrote:I read a review somewhere saying Matthew RA was weak on Salva which begs the question why is Stefan still not doing it when he is so good on it.

You really shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet.

But do believe this.

The same reviewer also said it was Matthew's first solo which was woefully inaccurate. I have personally heard Matthew deliver that part 7 times now in the last 2 years. His delivery has been consistently fine all 7 times.

And this is totally wrong !

The reviewer said Matthew RA was weak on Salva
Not on Stay with Me, and up until Epsom Matthew did not do the "Salva" parts , It was Stefan so your actually slighty confused here. There is no way you have heard Matthew 7 times on the Salva parts

dearmadine wrote:

tom413 wrote:The same reviewer also said it was Matthew's first solo which was woefully inaccurate. I have personally heard Matthew deliver that part 7 times now in the last 2 years. His delivery has been consistently fine all 7 times.

tom413 wrote: Whether that's what he meant or not, it isn't what he wrote.

Either I didn't make myself clear or you are dodging the point.
My criticism of his review is not about whether he is a lesser fan or not but rather about whether or not he has a responsibility to gain some knowledge about what he is writing about, before he has his writings published.

He wrote "Matthew R-A did Salva Me. This is the first time I heard he did a solo." which part in this sentence is not clear to you that the reviewer MEANT to say that it was HIS first time hearing Mattew RA singing Salve Me?

Certain components of the concert didn't meet his expectation.
Certain components of his review didn't meet your expectation.

If this review was just full of criticism and had no appreciation of Libera whatsoever, I wouldn't have posted it on my blog. However he had many great points in the review and clearly appreciated the boys and the concert itself. Can we just tolerate differences in opinions?

I concur.......

symphonica7 wrote: I truly understand where you're coming from...but like I've hinted at earlier....if you've seen and heard Stefan perform live more than once....you are considered a die hard Libera fan....and therefore your opinion is biased.......not to say it's not correct, however, it's just fresh hearing an honest opinion from someone who is new to Libera......Maybe he compared Stefan's live performance to the Studio versions.....however, the author also had rave reviews of many other boys and Daniel in particular..... So I'm not sure he solely based his opinion on Studio performance vs Live performance.....maybe there is a little bit of truth in there??? Maybe?

I'm having a little trouble keeping up!
But the weather stinks in Toronto today and I'm bored so I'll keep at it.

I think the honest bit of truth is that he admitted his criticism is grounded in his pre-conceived idea of how Stefan should sound. Good grief, what a responsibility for a 13 year old!

This could very well be the flip side of reading so much pro-Stefan chatter that he simply was unable to live up to his press clippings.

Last year's tour gave Stefan a real opportunity to shine. Walking up the center aisle singing solo accapella is certainly high risk/high reward performing and Stefan did awesome. His "duel" with Ralph in Mysterium last year in Fort Worth was particularly breathtaking.
Stefan simply does not have those same opportunities in this year's staging. I'll try to make my point in reverse; among these die-hards you speak of comments are being offered on how much Jakob has "improved." Is Jakob any better than he was last year? I don't know....I thought he did good work on Peace. What Jakob does have this year is an opportunity to get to the front of the stage and do some solos and gain some recognition because of it. I'm comfortable watching different kids being given the opportunity to step up and do "their" songs rather than have a 23 member ensemble that relies heavily on a few members as it was when I attended my first Libera concert. I think the approach of spreading the wealth is more beneficial to the unit as a whole. Though it does mean you have to stay in touch with the Libera media sources or you can fall behind quickly. How long ago was it that that the Angel Voices DVD was recorded???????

I would also take issue with the idea that my opinion is biased as compared to this persons. Obviously I like Libera or I wouldn't bother to go their shows, this however is true of the person who wrote the review and the person who published it as well. Seeing these guys perform live is a far different experience than just listening to the CD. I have certainly seen my share of mistakes in performances over the last few years - particularly in the aftermath of Tom's departure. If anything the experience of having attended many shows allows me to offer a reasoned comparison of group or individual performance year to year or show to show.

tom413 wrote:We received word that certain boys in the group were crushed by the specific negative criticism levelled at them on a blog. It was asked that we pass the word to our friends in cyberspace to consider carefully that the words you publish or write are read by some members of the group. When criticism is levelled about the quality of the singing, particuarly when an individual boy(s) is/are called out by name you can figure that it will get back to the boys in question and will be hurtful to them. It was in that case.

Thanks for the clarification but this must be a blog that has sidestepped me. I haven't seen anything that was overly or unfairly critical regarding Libera's concerts so far.

I can't imagine it's Tim's review on Inna's website because that was only shown today. He was mainly positive and expressed many times how delighted he was in the overall performance. He gave a few honest thoughts on a few issues/niggles that he highlighted. None of this was done in a vindictive or castigating manner.

If we are being made to feel guilty about dropping a boys name alongside something which is anything but ultra-positive, then maybe Libera should go back to not revealing the names in the first instance. Then you wouldn't feel the need to walk that tricky line were you don't want to step on a crack in the pavement for fear of upsetting anyone. Libera are, as they keep describing themselves an 'alternative kind of boy band' and a 'Global phenomenon'.

Of course we shoud be considerate and constructive in the way we address the performances (including individual solos) of Libera concerts. However the last thing we want from an objective and independant forum is to be policed into mentioning only the ultra positive aspects of the concert, and not telling the full story.

..but as I said it must be outside the boundaries of this forum, because I haven't read anything here that would cause upset to any of the libera boys.

He wrote "Matthew R-A did Salva Me. This is the first time I heard he did a solo." which part in this sentence is not clear to you that the reviewer MEANT to say that it was HIS first time hearing Mattew RA singing Salve Me?

It was the reviewer's first time hearing anyone in Libera sing a solo live.

I think what he was trying to say was that he was repeating some unverified information that he was told by another. Thus my point about whether or not there a responsibility to gather facts before writing for a venue such as yours.

If this review was just full of criticism and had no appreciation of Libera whatsoever, I wouldn't have posted it on my blog. However he had many great points in the review and clearly appreciated the boys and the concert itself. Can we just tolerate differences in opinions?

I can tolerate differences of opinion.

I'm not happy with factual inaccuracies and I'm not happy hearing that Libera members are upset about personal criticism they are receiving in the blogs.

As the publisher of a blog can you say the same thing?

tom413 wrote:
I can tolerate differences of opinion.

I'm not happy with factual inaccuracies and I'm not happy hearing that Libera members are upset about personal criticism they are receiving in the blogs.

As the publisher of a blog can you say the same thing?

But can you not see that is part and parcel of being performers?

Libera is no different to any other act that gets reviews good/bad?

tom413 wrote:

symphonica7 wrote: I truly understand where you're coming from...but like I've hinted at earlier....if you've seen and heard Stefan perform live more than once....you are considered a die hard Libera fan....and therefore your opinion is biased.......not to say it's not correct, however, it's just fresh hearing an honest opinion from someone who is new to Libera......Maybe he compared Stefan's live performance to the Studio versions.....however, the author also had rave reviews of many other boys and Daniel in particular..... So I'm not sure he solely based his opinion on Studio performance vs Live performance.....maybe there is a little bit of truth in there??? Maybe?

I'm having a little trouble keeping up!
But the weather stinks in Toronto today and I'm bored so I'll keep at it.

I think the honest bit of truth is that he admitted his criticism is grounded in his pre-conceived idea of how Stefan should sound. Good grief, what a responsibility for a 13 year old!

This could very well be the flip side of reading so much pro-Stefan chatter that he simply was unable to live up to his press clippings.

Last year's tour gave Stefan a real opportunity to shine. Walking up the center aisle singing solo accapella is certainly high risk/high reward performing and Stefan did awesome. His "duel" with Ralph in Mysterium last year in Fort Worth was particularly breathtaking.
Stefan simply does not have those same opportunities in this year's staging. I'll try to make my point in reverse; among these die-hards you speak of comments are being offered on how much Jakob has "improved." Is Jakob any better than he was last year? I don't know....I thought he did good work on Peace. What Jakob does have this year is an opportunity to get to the front of the stage and do some solos and gain some recognition because of it. I'm comfortable watching different kids being given the opportunity to step up and do "their" songs rather than have a 23 member ensemble that relies heavily on a few members as it was when I attended my first Libera concert. I think the approach of spreading the wealth is more beneficial to the unit as a whole. Though it does mean you have to stay in touch with the Libera media sources or you can fall behind quickly. How long ago was it that that the Angel Voices DVD was recorded???????

I would also take issue with the idea that my opinion is biased as compared to this persons. Obviously I like Libera or I wouldn't bother to go their shows, this however is true of the person who wrote the review and the person who published it as well. Seeing these guys perform live is a far different experience than just listening to the CD. I have certainly seen my share of mistakes in performances over the last few years - particularly in the aftermath of Tom's departure. If anything the experience of having attended many shows allows me to offer a reasoned comparison of group or individual performance year to year or show to show.

LOL....keep at it my friend! Sure it's a ton of pressure on a 13 yr old kid.....but with praises comes criticism, and being a part of Libera is what you have to deal with......Libera is on the verge of re-writing the choir boys history(if they haven't done so already)......it's a big deal!
Like I've stated earlier......Stefan on a bad day is still spectacular! But let's be honest......I really don't think Robert would give the other boys a chance to shine just for the sake of being fair.......because then he would have to let all the boys do a solo......Robert's best interest is packaging Libera and presenting them to the world at their best!!! So I see that as the best voices for a particular song at that particular moment will be heard......

With that being said......boys voices do change quite rapidly.....some for the better some for the worst.....

Not saying Stefan has lost an edge....just saying some treble voices don't peak until right before it breaks....which I believe is the case with Daniel and Jakob.....

Also lets not forget with somebody like Stefan he has had solo gigs like Lord of the Rings and was his schools main soloist so he would know how it works im sure.

dani wrote:

tom413 wrote:

dani wrote:I read a review somewhere saying Matthew RA was weak on Salva which begs the question why is Stefan still not doing it when he is so good on it.

You really shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet.

But do believe this.

The same reviewer also said it was Matthew's first solo which was woefully inaccurate. I have personally heard Matthew deliver that part 7 times now in the last 2 years. His delivery has been consistently fine all 7 times.

And this is totally wrong !

The reviewer said Matthew RA was weak on Salva
Not on Stay with Me, and up until Epsom Matthew did not do the "Salva" parts , It was Stefan so your actually slighty confused here. There is no way you have heard Matthew 7 times on the Salva parts

As I said, don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Let's make that 5 high solos on Stay With Me and 2 on Salva with each being delivered consistently fine. Though I will have 7 by the time the tour's over and I expect Matthew to maintain his consistency throughout the week.

JimmyRiddle wrote: Thanks for the clarification but this must be a blog that has sidestepped me. I haven't seen anything that was overly or unfairly critical regarding Libera's concerts so far.

Of all the folks here, I was sure you would know Jimmy.
You're still the king of links to all things Libera.

The comment delivered to us was absolutely not about the review of London as it was said just before the London concert began. The message was vague (deliberately so?) in terms of which review, which boy(s), and which blog. I have an idea which review of St. Mike's was being referred to, but I can't truthfully say for certain that I am correct.

My takeaways were that it was not about this forum, but rather the blogs and to consider what kind of effect the things that are published in the blogs can have on the kids we profess to be fans of. I don't believe the person delivering the message was trying to have any individual personally called out as much as to appeal for more editorial discretion than was applied in that instance.

I'm still a little confused about this so called 'negative' blog that has found a way into their very busy and tight schedule to bring upset to a few boys. Until it's shown and we can read it and form our own conclusions surrounding it's details, then it's not something we can tackle and speculate against.

tom413 wrote:Of all the folks here, I was sure you would know Jimmy.
You're still the king of links to all things Libera.

Oh don't worry I will find it, but I have been at work most of today, and I feel a little tired for my searches lol but thanks I just read your message above.

JimmyRiddle wrote:I'm still a little confused about this so called 'negative' blog that has found a way into their very busy and tight schedule to bring upset to a few boys. Until it's shown and we can read it and form our own conclusions surrounding it's details, then it's not something we can tackle and speculate against.

http://dearmadine.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can read the review here.........We are talking about Stefan....