Important: Information from Steven Philipp (Libera Chairman)

[tom413]

[Yorkie]

I don't think population factors in as much as your response might make one think, Yorkie. Chicago had the biggest population of any stop on this tour and the smallest gate (thus far - but I think they'll do better in Texas than in Chicago). Argued a different way, the crowd estimates at Guelph were around 1k in a city of 114k, Chicago didn't even have half that amount in a city of 2.8 million.

We'll have to disagree then. Most of the ticket sales in the US are on the back of local churches - in the UK a congregation of 100 on a Sunday morning would be a modern day miracle. I guess we'll never know where Libera makes it's money but I suspect it is not Europe or North America.......

[dani]

No you didn't randomly make anything up, Dani.

But once again you have taken the comments of a person on the AV group
(who may or may not be credible) and embellished them.
One would think that after having to eat crow when you did the same thing on
the meet and greet issue you might have changed your practice.

There is no doubt that the expense side of the ledger is smaller in the UK,
but so is the revenue side from all reports I have read.
Trying to maximize limited funds to develop and maintain a fanbase is quite
a tricky operation and I do not envy the decision makers at Libera who have to
continually engage in such a task.

What makes somebody credible ?, this person has been on AV since about 2005 and is goes to lots of concerts and knows what he is talking about .



And please i have not embellished anything. This tour is going to make a massive lose. fact !!
Even when you factor in visa cost for each boy and 29 boys then you are looking at £200,000 alone.


And i was wrong about the M&G but when you factor in the fact they used to do one in the U.S/Canada at everywhere stop pretty much i do wonder whats different about 2008/2009 then 2011.
And i was wrong and i held my hands up which is a lot more than most do on this forum.

[tom413]

What makes somebody credible?......That's my point, Dani.

You don't know this person (who incidentally is the same person you quoted in the
m&g discussion) and therefore don't know how credible he is.

You aren't privy to the finances of the tour and therefore aren't in a position to declare
its financial demise - before it's even over, I might add.

Why would you write such a thing?

Please, try your best not to spread so much negativity when other fans are so pumped up
about enjoying the remaining concerts in this tour.

These are my final comments on this topic. If you want to discuss further, PM me.

[maartendas]

dani - Thank you for quoting the member of AV Yahoo groups, everyone can now see what info we are actually talking about. And decide for themselves how serious they want to take it. The reason I said at first that you made a harsh statement was that there was an image being presented that could not be verified. So thank you for giving us the quote.

I was just ticked off at that moment by the use of strong words because I have become conscious of Libera people reading the forum as well. When I first came on here, I didn't think they ever would. But as past discussions here have taught me, it's wise to keep in mind who else might be reading. Also, since the forum is opened for everyone to read, there is an increase in visitors. So does that mean we should never mention any financial problems? No, but as my mother always says, it's the tone that makes the music (that's actually an appropriate saying on a forum like this ) So expressing worries and concern, or starting a discussion, based on the knowledge at hand - yes. But the actual knowledge was missing, and then you run the risk of losing perspective. Maybe I am over-conscious now, if so, please correct me What I write is just my opinion and just like you (on the M&G) I admit I make mistakes sometimes

I agree the interview (well, conversation really) with Mr. Philipp was second-hand, but it's almost first-hand since 95% of it is Mr. Philipp talking. Even though it's a transcription made afterwards, and it was not intended as an interview, it's still the closest we could get right now to him directly answering our questions. Unless, if you are reading this, Mr. Philipp, you would like to make an arrangement for a proper interview once you get back from the States

[Lauren]

There is no doubt that the expense side of the ledger is smaller in the UK,
but so is the revenue side from all reports I have read.

That's a bit harsh Tom - for a start we only have 20% of the population of the US! They tend to play smaller venues in the UK but the last three I went to were all sell outs (Epsom, Beverley, St George's).

I don't think population factors in as much as your response might make one think, Yorkie. Chicago had the biggest population of any stop on this tour and the smallest gate (thus far - but I think they'll do better in Texas than in Chicago). Argued a different way, the crowd estimates at Guelph were around 1k in a city of 114k, Chicago didn't even have half that amount in a city of 2.8 million.

I don't begrudge you guys your own tour. If it were packaged up the way the Canadian or American ones were,
I'd likely go.

There are other factors as well. The amount of advance notice determines how long they have to get the word out. Tickets went on sale only 4 weeks ahead of time on this tour. Advertising helps also. Canada had free & paid advertising. US only free. The church matters a lot, too. The Texas churches are evangelical and can usually deliver a much bigger audience of their own leaving fewer tickets to sell outside of the church. The Chicago church is not really a church. It is a non-denominational chapel on the University of Chicago campus. It has no set congregation to draw from. Things would have been much different if Moody Church had sponsored the concert.

[tom413]

An excellent point, Lauren.
I agree that more advance notice would allow for better marketing. It would
also make it easier for long distance fans to make plans to join the tour!

[javerylibe]

I don't think population factors in as much as your response might make one think, Yorkie. Chicago had the biggest population of any stop on this tour and the smallest gate (thus far - but I think they'll do better in Texas than in Chicago). Argued a different way, the crowd estimates at Guelph were around 1k in a city of 114k, Chicago didn't even have half that amount in a city of 2.8 million.

We'll have to disagree then. Most of the ticket sales in the US are on the back of local churches - in the UK a congregation of 100 on a Sunday morning would be a modern day miracle. I guess we'll never know where Libera makes it's money but I suspect it is not Europe or North America.......

Libera's American tour stops honestly surprise me a bit. I'm sure that there must be some sort of method to their choices, and I know that we've assumed that sponsors determine quite a bit of the group's touring plans, but I always wonder why they don't try to bring the group to churches and cathedrals with already established traditions of high-calibre boys' or children's choirs. That way, they would run a better possibility of attracting members of a home community already enthusiastic about consuming (a) liturgical choral music or (b) boys'/children's voices.

This might be a gross stereotype, but when I picture religious life and styles of worship in the south/west United States, I imagine praise bands, guitar music and spirituals (etc.) rather than choirs, necessarily. That's not to say, of course, that Americans in those areas or from that kind of church music background couldn't or wouldn't appreciate the music made by a choir such as Libera, but they aren't exactly a built-in audience. And when your group is in town for a one-off performance, that can make it hard to anyone but the most enthusiastic consumers, who are already few and far between.

Japan, though? Another kettle of raw, sashimi-grade fish entirely.

[tom413]

Libera's American tour stops honestly surprise me a bit. I'm sure that there must be some sort of method to their choices, and I know that we've assumed that sponsors determine quite a bit of the group's touring plans, but I always wonder why they don't try to bring the group to churches and cathedrals with already established traditions of high-calibre boys' or children's choirs.

Where might those places be? I don't know that there are many such places here. If there are, I'd like to know more.

Musical styles aside, what the Texas churches seem to have is large memberships and a strong sense of community.
If the church community embraces this one-off event and makes a collective decision that this is an event worth supporting
we'll be in good shape tomorrow.

[Widescreen]

This might be a gross stereotype, but when I picture religious life and styles of worship in the south/west United States, I imagine praise bands, guitar music and spirituals (etc.) rather than choirs, necessarily.

In general, I agree with you. In this area (Dallas), we have a ton of churches that have primarily praise-band style worship. However, Stonebriar is absolutely an exception. I doubt there's an evangelical church within a couple hundred miles of here that is as traditional as Stonebriar. In my time in the choir there, we did a TON of fantastic classical/liturgical music - full orchestra and 160+ voice choir. Here are some samples - this will give you an idea of the types of music the Stonebriar congregation is accustomed to. There will definitely be a genuine appreciation for Libera's music. I also suspect that Tallowood is similar since Stonebriar's former minister of music came from Tallowood and loved the traditional music. Sounds like Libera picked their churches in this area appropriately.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (This was one of my favorites. )
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Malibu]

This is my .02 on the this: Let's not worry about the money. None of us know the exact extent of Libera's finances. Let's just be happy that they chose to tour and spread their music. It just seems like there so much negativity around this subject. Let's just try to support them anyway we can - whether it be through financial donations, volunteering time, buying CD's and tickets to concerts, or just being a supportive fan on the forum.
Don't worry, be happy

As for the locations they picked for this tour. I do wonder how they pick them, but like javerylibe said, I'm sure sponsors determine part of it, and also just finding a venue who's interested and who's schedule lines up with the general timeframe of their tour is a challenge.

[phlibera]

I think this question was already answered by Mr. Philipp in the original AV message posted by Craig. It's not entirely up to them. They also need coordinators (among many other things that need to fall into place) where they perform, and so it's a bit safe that they didn't find any willing coordinators in the areas where they are not touring. And it just so happened that the same enthusiastic coordinators of last year's USA tour were as enthusiastic as ever to do the work in bringing them back.

Also, let's not forget that this was a last minute change of plans. Remember in the original AV message, it was mentioned that they were supposed to go to China.

[TullyBascombe]

Libera's style is definitely different from the cathedral choirs of England. I can't imagine why they wouldn't get as much appreciation from a non-denominational evangelist audience as they would from one of the big high-church Episcopal cathedrals back east. The US is a huge potential market for them, but it's ;so one that they haven't had much market penetration in. That's where tours may be useful. They've toured a swath of the northeast, the west, the south central and now they've given the people of the midwest a chance to taste their style.

[phlibera]

Yes, and further to that, they planned to go to China, for the first time. So there's that desire to go somewhere where they haven't gone before, potentially bringing in new fans. But a lot of things had to fall into place. Foremost is that that venue must have a local coordinator who won't bail on them the last minute (at least that's what I gathered from that conversation between Craig and Steven). So I can't also blame them for returning to places where they had much support in the past.

[javerylibe]

Libera's American tour stops honestly surprise me a bit. I'm sure that there must be some sort of method to their choices, and I know that we've assumed that sponsors determine quite a bit of the group's touring plans, but I always wonder why they don't try to bring the group to churches and cathedrals with already established traditions of high-calibre boys' or children's choirs.

Where might those places be? I don't know that there are many such places here. If there are, I'd like to know more..

I haven't researched more than a few places, but from what I've seen, the area around New York City seems to be a hotspot. The Choir of St Thomas Church there is of the same calibre as any British cathedral or collegiate choir, and the church, as I understand it, frequently hosts said cathedral/collegiate choirs for full-to-the-gills concerts and special Evensongs. In the same city is the Cathedral School at St John the Divine, where boy and girl choristers volunteer to sing in the choir of the largest Anglican cathedral in the States (and arguably in the world). Huge tourist site, I'd imagine. Nearby, too, are the American Boychoir School and the Westminster Choir College (which, I think, is actually a university with a special choral focus), and though I can't speak to their draw on audiences, both choirs are quite well-known.