Libera Dreams

This has been something that I've been wondering about for a while. Why is it that many people think that there is a difference between boys and girls voices? I have read experts can't tell the difference between girls and boys voices. Unless, of course, it's for tradition.

gingerthedog1 wrote:This has been something that I've been wondering about for a while. Why is it that many people think that there is a difference between boys and girls voices? I have read experts can't tell the difference between girls and boys voices. Unless, of course, it's for tradition.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... 7201,d.aWw

A long URL and an even longer article. I confess to not reading every word but my overall understanding is that there are anatomical and physiological differences in the vocal apparatus even before puberty but that girls can be trained to sound like boys and vice versa.

Back when this website was busier there were a number of heated discussions on this topic along with some discussions on historical trends relating to the age of voice change in boys.

I'm not touching either with a ten foot pole.

Thanks you for posting that very interesting article. It is interesting because it seems to debunk the earlier myth that it is usually possible to tell a difference between girls and boys voices, when it is actually only somewhat distinguishable.

I read the article as well, and it is interesting. It's not conclusive, but it suggests that there are indeed differences before puberty, at least in untrained voices, especially as boys approach puberty (as noted by the graph on p. 109, and the correlation between the age of the boy and correct listener identification of gender). The information about listener identification of choirs is also interesting, but unfortunately it can't be directly compared to the former information to draw a specific conclusion, because of all the uncontrolled variables - there could have been a difference in the group of listeners, maybe it makes a difference that it was a choir vs. individual, etc. But the average spectra on p. 113 does seem to support the idea that girls can sound like boys in certain contexts, related most likely to training, especially if the choir director is aiming for more of a boy-like sound.

However, it's also worth noting that none of this really applies to singers who are post-puberty, whether male or female. The male voice change is probably more obvious, but girls' voices do mature over time as well. So for a choir that has a wide age range and includes choristers who are post-puberty, you would expect to hear a more obvious different between an all-female choir and an all-male choir. Here are a couple videos which I think illustrate that point. I believe both choirs are relatively similar in style and, judging from their sound, they both include a variety of ages, so I think they should be pretty comparable. The difference between the lower male voices and the lower female voices is probably the easiest to hear - I don't think you'd mistake the tenors/etc. for females, nor would you mistake the female altos for males. Additionally, if you listen to the high parts in the girls choir, you may also notice a fairly distinct female sound compared to the high parts in the boy choir. I'm guessing this is because some older girls are also singing as sopranos.

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gingerthedog1 wrote:Thanks you for posting that very interesting article. It is interesting because it seems to debunk the earlier myth that it is usually possible to tell a difference between girls and boys voices, when it is actually only somewhat distinguishable.

Does it? I'm not sure it did. It said there was little difference before 10 y.o. but that after that there is a distinct physical difference. However, depending on the material being sung it could prove difficult for (untrained) listeners to distinguish between girls and boys choirs. The key thing being that it was very dependent on what 20 second clip of what particular song they were listening to. I think it would be very easy to sway the result in a particular direction with which 'snippet' of which song the person conducting the test wishes to chose. I think I could pick songs which would be easier or harder for people to pick out whether the choristers were boys or girls - it depends what result you want and that is very hard to quantify in a study.

I heard Stephen Cleobury state in an interview that he believed there was a difference if that carries any weight.

Yorkie wrote: I heard Stephen Cleobury state in an interview that he believed there was a difference if that carries any weight.

I would say that carry's a lot of weight.

I can sometimes tell the difference between boys and girls voices. That said, I never would have guessed Mark Lester's parts in "Oliver" were sung by a girl (apparently, he is tone deaf)

Prototype wrote: ↑<span title="Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:35 pm">4 years ago</span> I can sometimes tell the difference between boys and girls voices. That said, I never would have guessed Mark Lester's parts in "Oliver" were sung by a girl (apparently, he is tone deaf)

But now you know that his singing voice was dubbed by a 19 y.o. woman it sticks out like sore thumb doesn't it.

Yorkie wrote: ↑<span title="Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:32 pm">4 years ago</span>

Prototype wrote: ↑<span title="Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:35 pm">4 years ago</span> I can sometimes tell the difference between boys and girls voices. That said, I never would have guessed Mark Lester's parts in "Oliver" were sung by a girl (apparently, he is tone deaf)

But now you know that his singing voice was dubbed by a 19 y.o. woman it sticks out like sore thumb doesn't it.

I did not realise she was that old