Libera Dreams

Okay some background first.

I'm not starting this thread to knock RP or the guys or as some doom merchant that thinks the group is finished. I've posted before that I think the young kids are up to replacing the more experienced lads but are they? I read an old interview in which RP said he had sleepless nights wondering where he could find enough talented 7 y.o. to fill the gap five years later and it got me thinking........

So, has RP got enough talent to replace Tom, Liam, Josh, Ed, Ben, Zach, Alex, Sam, Tiarnan, etc, etc, etc?

I have no contact with the choir and bar the one concert in Edinburgh no vast experience of how good the younger ones are. It's one thing (I think Fan De LOK said this before me) to sing as part of the main group or hit a few nice high notes in support of the soloist, but do we have anybody that could stand up and carry a solo today outside of the big names?

Personally, I think that it might be a year or two off before RP will have somebody to replace Tom et al. I'm thinking that we might have a period where the songs are sung as more of a group effort or with two or three of the boys singing the 'solo' parts together.

Finally, I think RP might have got it wrong in giving the solo's to the same few lads for so long - he perhaps should have bloodied some of the other guys sooner. Why didn't he?????

So fire away, tell me I'm wrong. I'm a big boy, I can take it

Hello Yorkie

I think you are right about a transition period starting now and going on for a year or two. Yes, maybe there will be more songs sung by the all choir, and less soloists parts, but I also think you are wrong to worry about this


RP has always been able to find, or train successfully, young people to get them on the path of excellence.

The successive leaves of Oliver Putland, Liam O'Kane, Steven Gerathy, Ben Crawley, and many other great soloists, have not been a major problem. There has always been after them other great soloists who arrived and there is no reason that this does not continue


It is true that for several years (2005-2008) group members were not very renewed, and now it's a big change in a short time. But was RP really having the choice?
The group was very good and homogeneous. which of them he should have removed the group to make place for new ones?


I understand that the fans who have discovered and loved Libera in the past 3 or 4 years, are anxious to see many leaving in a short time, but for older fans like me who have fallen fan of Libera more than 10 years ago, leaving I saw many, some with great sadness, but then I always found other great soloists!


I think we should rejoice to have been blessed with an extraordinary group for several years, and now we must be enthusiastic, not anxious, about the arrival of many new ones: )

This will bring many changes in the songs and for my part I think that 2010 will be very exciting to see and will be full of surprises and novelties

Hi Patrick, should have known you would be first up

Perhaps I didn't explain myself too well. Of course I know that the group will change that's just the nature of a boys choir. I'm honestly not sad to see the current lads grow up and leave (great kids but the current group are not the best voices ever to sing in Libera). #edit# just re-read that and it seems cold! What I meant is I'm not in to Libera for just one or two of the main lads - I'm in this for the long haul and for the whole group whomever it might be

My point was more that in the past there seems to have been (and only you old hands can confirm if I'm right because I wasn't about at the time) a clear handing over of the batton from one generation to the next - from Oliver and Liam to Ben, the Joe's, Anthony, Chris to Michael & Tom.

I just don't see a direct handover, the next lead isn't obvious to me. But as you say, a more group focused style is not necessarily a bad thing (but if I'm honest I would view that as a backwards step to the SPBC days).

Come on guys chip in, I'm just looking to get a discussion going to tide us over to the concerts

Yorkie wrote: I just don't see a direct handover, the next lead isn't obvious to me. But as you say, a more group focused style is not necessarily a bad thing (but if I'm honest I would view that as a backwards step to the SPBC days).

Yorkie, I think the most of your concern is derived from Libera's Marketing/PR strategy from late 2005 to today.

As we can see from Angel Voices (2006), Leiden DVD (2007), New Dawn (2008) and Eternal (2008) album covers, Libera "selected" certain boys to be on the album cover and I don't think it's a coincidence that we see/hear more of them on media (in exception for mini Ben). Therefore it's quite natural that the "new fan base" (which is definitely not a small pie) was built around them. Since Libera's fame has been growing almost exponentially around certain 5-6 more popular boys for past four years, it is very understandable to be unsure of "who's next."

I would say no worries at all.
Even if the new fan base (including myself) was built around certain boys, once you become a Libera fan, you kinda stay loyal to this group because eventually you would just fall in love with the whole choir... and I think Libera knows this too

It is true that 2009 has been a big transitional year since 2005. Tom is no longer a soloist, and this is probably the last year for Josh as a soloist, and possibly for Liam too. However, I think Ed and mini Ben have another few months or a year ahead of them...so that's good. You can see that Libera has been trying hard to get a good balance of introducing new members as well as showing our good "old(!)" fellas. They've been working on it since late 2008

Let's just sit back and wait a bit. Libera knows what they are doing.
I'm sure the matter of "who's gonna be next who" will be cleared when the new videos and album come out at the end of this year and early next year...hopefully!

P.S.
My guesses are: Stefan, Kavana, and Flynn as next main soloists!

dearmadine wrote:

Yorkie wrote: I just don't see a direct handover, the next lead isn't obvious to me. But as you say, a more group focused style is not necessarily a bad thing (but if I'm honest I would view that as a backwards step to the SPBC days).

Yorkie, I think the most of your concern is derived from Libera's Marketing/PR strategy from late 2005 to today.

As we can see from Angel Voices (2006), Leiden DVD (2007), New Dawn (2008) and Eternal (2008) album covers, Libera "selected" certain boys to be on the album cover and I don't think it's a coincidence that we see/hear more of them on media (in exception for mini Ben). Therefore it's quite natural that the "new fan base" (which is definitely not a small pie) was built around them. Since Libera's fame has been growing almost exponentially around certain 5-6 more popular boys for past four years, it is very understandable to be unsure of "who's next."

I would say no worries at all.
Even if the new fan base (including myself) was built around certain boys, once you become a Libera fan, you kinda stay loyal to this group because eventually you would just fall in love with the whole choir... and I think Libera knows this too

It is true that 2009 has been a big transitional year since 2005. Tom is no longer a soloist, and this is probably the last year for Josh as a soloist, and possibly for Liam too. However, I think Ed and mini Ben have another few months or a year ahead of them...so that's good. You can see that Libera has been trying hard to get a good balance of introducing new members as well as showing our good "old(!)" fellas. They've been working on it since late 2008

Let's just sit back and wait a bit. Libera knows what they are doing.
I'm sure the matter of "who's gonna be next who" will be cleared when the new videos and album come out at the end of this year and early next year...hopefully!

P.S.
My guesses are: Stefan, Kavana, and Flynn as next main soloists!

I really agree with you on this, Yorkie and dearmadine! It's difficult to say where the group will go next, but Libera will always be Libera. Although I did not become a fan of the group until the summer of 2008 (and was thus introduced to the group mainly from 2005-present featuring soloists such as Michael, Big Ben, Tom, Josh, Ed, Liam, Mini-Ben, etc.) and I am sad to see them leave, I am eager to see which direction RP and the new members will take the group.

And...I also think Stefan, Kavana and Flynn will become the next main soloists. They're around the age when Libera boys begin to solo more, I believe (somewhere between 10-12?). Maybe we'll get to hear Alex Leggett too? In a few years, maybe Freddie and Mini-James as well?

I agree with everything that is on here, in some way or another. I'm going to post up a list of the new boys and what I think their specific strengths are:

Alfie Smart - It is a bit unclear what Alfie's role will be yet, as he has had no solo's, but his ever present smile and easy going personality will add to the Libera picture as much as any soloist's voice!

Carlos Rodriguez - Another genuinely happy boy! When this new generation of boys is at the front of the group, I think Smile would be an excellent song to cover!

Daniel Fontannaz - Although not as young as some of the "younger boys", Daniel's voice is very soft and soothing, a good solo candidate for songs like I Vow To Thee My Country and Abide With Me!

Flynn Marks - I don't pick favorites, but if I did, Flynn would be a top contestant! I love his solo on 'May The Road Rise Up', and I am sure that he will have many more solos as the years move forward!

Freddie Ingles - Remember the 'There Is A Green Hill' video, with Tom and Michael singing? When I heard Freddie and James sing 'Prayer' I was reminded of that video. Both of their voices still have the childish sweetness, the innocence that only experience ever outgrows.

James Mordaunt - I swear, this boy is an angel. His cherubic smile and tender voice will capture new fans just as Josh Madine's did in 2004!

Henry Barrington - Not much is known about Henry at this point, but little brothers are always trained in humor by their older brothers. I can't wait to read the blogs by this little guy!

James Threadgill - James is a Libera veteren by now, although he is usually counted among the new boys. He has been singing with the choir (along with Daniel Fontannaz) since approximately 2006.

Matthew Rangel-Alvarez - I was shocked when I first heard a clip of Matthew singing the high descant on 'Stay With Me'. I never thought anybody would hit those notes like Liam does, but I was wrong! I can't wait to hear more from Matthew!

Kavana Crossley - I read an interview where Kavana said that if he were an angel, he would buy a really nice car for his mum. In this case, I must assume that Mrs. Crossley is enjoying a lovely new car, courtesy of her delightful son!

Ralph Skan - *Ralph sings to large crowd* "Smile, though your heart is aching, Smile, even though it's breaking, When there are clouds in the sky, You'll get by..."

Sammy Moriarity - If Sammy were an angel, he would make his mother a movie star and then use the money for charity. I have to say, if any of the eleven year old boys I know had movie star mothers, the first thing on their mind would not be charity.

Stefan Leadbeater - If Stefan's voice was anymore pure and clear, it would have shattered the Crystal Cathedral!

And there we have our next frontline candidates... Lots of talent there!

in my opinion, for the next maybe year or two (or until their voices break) mini-ben and ed will take over, then when their voices do change, the younger boys will start taking charge. But i do think RP is training boys such as Kavana, Flynn, freddie, etc. so that they'll be ready for when the long time soloists completely fade away (tom already has and i think liam and josh aren't far behind! ) .either way libera will never fade!

Interesting thoughts and some good points. I think there will be a period of regrowth, once some of the frontline boys we have come to know over recent years, take their leave. The more substantial solo's for a time at least, may well be in short supply.

It struck me how tall Josh was compared to Flynn when he was standing next to him at the Edinburgh photoshoot, and in a way that size difference, can be representative of the challenge Robert Prizeman faces in taking the choir/band to the next level. There are some very young boys of more or less the same age, the next generation so to speak, as mentioned by Libera36 above. The Tom/Josh/Liam/Ed/Mini-Ben etc.. have connected very well with the public and strengthened Libera's popularity, but I'm certain there's no reason that in a year of so's time, the Next Generation will be more than up to the task of continuing their success story - both in sound, and off stage infront of the camera. It's the latter more than anything, which has been really evident in recent years.

As long as Robert Prizeman and his ex-libera crew are in charge, I'm sure we have absolutely nothing to worry about.

There will be changes coming, of course; it's the nature of a boy's choir that the people involved change fairly regularly, after all. But I don't think they will really cause trouble for Libera, even if there aren't any soloists who are at the caliber of those leaving. The reason is pretty simple: Libera is primarily a group (a choir, although they kind of avoid using that term), not a star singer with backup singers.

Some of their songs do, of course, have solos, sung by fine singers; but the solos are pretty clearly there to create the flow of the piece, rather than to show off the soloist. In many cases, I think the solos could be replaced by group singing (perhaps small groups--duets or trios) without overly much reworking of the song.

Also, I suspect that many may be underestimating some of the younger boys; there's a whole lot of talent in the group that isn't nearly so evident on the surface. Listen, for instance, to the various harmonies in a piece like "The Lamb," which is full of somewhat unorthodox intervals and jumps and key changes. In places it sounds to me like there is only one singer per part, and everybody is dead on pitch. In some ways, that's harder to do than to sing a solo; there's less room for error or personal interpretation, and a greater need to listen to the others and blend in. (In some other ways, such as nerves, it is easier; and nerves are likely a consideration at times for featured bits in performances.)

Personally, I had been wondering the same as Yorkie! Im one of those fans who came in quite late (summer last year i think) so ive only ever known the current line up and am very biased towards them (when compared to previous line ups i mean!). I was genuinely saddened by the loss of Tom in particular so was abit dubious about seeing them live without him.

After the Arundel concert in May though, all my worries were gone. I felt the new boys well and truely took over the stage and were fantastic even with their little experience! Steffan and Flynn especially blew me away with their voices!

I think it will take some getting used to (not just for the fans but also the boys!) having new people at the front but I think the new boys have definately got the talent to carry on being Libera at its best!

Now all we need is RP to write some new songs to put on a new album early next year?! (We can only hope!)

Good, I like to get a debate started

I hear what you are saying, I think we probably are all in agreement but just to stretch things a little.....

Has a mistake been made by not giving the younger ones a chance to do solos? Ben and Ed might be able to take the lead for the next year but equally their voices might break tomorrow - we had no warning for Zack or Joe S.

My main point is that in the past boys have been getting solos when they are about 11. Which of the current crop have had solo's? Not many (any?) would be my guess. Why do you think RP hasn't blooded any of the younger kids yet - he might well do it in Manila but if he does I think it will have been forced on him rather than a calculated decision. In the past he knew kids like Tom and Michael H were ready for it and he gave them the chance.

In mitigation I think RP is a genius (not sure why he hasn't had an honour given to him yet) and I'm in no way criticising him - I'm just curious that there seems to have been a deviation from the norm in the last couple of years and was speculating why that might be.

p.s. I'm not hung up on this current crop of soloists growing up and leaving - I have no favourites among them. My concern is only that Libera carries on growing it's fan base and to do that they need top drawer soloists (a cute smile and brilliant personality seems to work wonders on those female fans as well of course ).

Here is an interview with Robert Prizeman in 2006. In it he describes how he picks boys to jin the choir.
Japanese Love FM radio interview with Robert Prizeman in 2006

“How do you choose the boys to be in the choir”?

“Well we sort of have an audition, but of course at the age of seven they likely have not sung very much. In the UK there aren’t really many teachers that will be getting youngsters to sing before the age of seven. So when I meet them through a variety of advertising and contacts and things like that they will not practically be singers so we will ask them to sing a children’s song or a children’s carol. Then I will be seeing what the musical talent they have and what potential they might have. And then they will come along hopefully if their parents want to give it a go and they’ll have like a trail period so the audition although there is a moment where I will meet them and the auditions sort of carries on. The auditions also carries on a reverse, because the parents have to sort of audition us because it is a lot of time and sometimes it might be that they want their children to be not that involved so the parents get a chance to sort of test it out as well. But most of them stay with us actually we seem to back the right horses by and large they sort of gradually get involved more and more and then it sort of becomes a way of life really although it is a hobby of course. They are at different schools and they don’t do this because they have too it’s done in their spare time. So this makes it much easier because we don’t have to compulsive them to do things that they all want to do”.

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I believe Prizeman should be focus on the new members more in solo parts instead of letting the current boys do all the leading solo parts. No its a question as who is going to take the lead solo as the boys who currently are about to brake their voices.

DrewE wrote: Also, I suspect that many may be underestimating some of the younger boys; there's a whole lot of talent in the group that isn't nearly so evident on the surface. Listen, for instance, to the various harmonies in a piece like "The Lamb," which is full of somewhat unorthodox intervals and jumps and key changes. In places it sounds to me like there is only one singer per part, and everybody is dead on pitch. In some ways, that's harder to do than to sing a solo; there's less room for error or personal interpretation, and a greater need to listen to the others and blend in. (In some other ways, such as nerves, it is easier; and nerves are likely a consideration at times for featured bits in performances.)

Well, more stuff like The Lamb would be a huge plus in my book - I always liked that one

Nerves - yes I think you have hit on something there. Just being a good singer isn't enough to land you a solo, you need to have the nerve to do it as well. Remember Tom on the Leiden video letting out a sigh of relief as he completed his solo; he was pleased to get through it without making a mistake (what song was it? Do not stand?).

I suspect that some of the group wouldn't want to do a solo, they are happy to be part of the group and don't want the pressure. Perhaps good soloists are born and not trained

It's true that the soloists haven't changed much over the past few years, but the publicly performing part of Libera hasn't seemed to change its membership until about 2008, in my opinion. In 2007 there was a lot of the same boys that were there in 2005/2006, and it wasn't until 2008 that more newbies were involved in concerts. Maybe RP gave solos to the boys about to break during this period since they were older and soon may no longer be soloists with Libera?

Since Tom's departure from the high notes, and Josh and Liam's slower descent, I think RP has done a good job with introducing the newbies into the former soloists' positions. For example I read that Flynn has taken over "May the Road Rise Up" from Tom, and Alex Leggett and Kavana Crossley sang "Always With You" (also formerly Tom's solo). Well I guess Alex is not a newbie but he hasn't really soloed before, to my knowledge. And then Freddie and Mini-James on "Prayer" and giving Liam's high notes on "Stay With Me" to Matthew Rangel-Alvarez with the main solo now being handed over to Daniel Fontannaz and Joe Snelling's "Salva Me" solo to Stefan. I think the "changing of the guard" will go pretty smoothly although Libera may shuffle some songs around/eliminate some solos and have them be duets or trios or small groups until RP finds the right new soloist for the song. RP has a genius for finding just the right soloist for a song though, so I'm not worried. The newbies will be able to fill in for the more experienced boys, no problem!

But I do agree that until their voices break, Ed and Mini-Ben will become the front-line soloists since they will be among the older boys that have done more solo work and have been involved since around 2005 (Ed) and 2006 (Mini-Ben).

fan_de_LoK wrote: It is true that for several years (2005-2008) group members were not very renewed, and now it's a big change in a short time. But was RP really having the choice?
The group was very good and homogeneous. which of them he should have removed the group to make place for new ones?

Hi Patrick just taking a bit more time to read through these posts and digest them properly.

Playing devils advocate (and leaving aside the fact we are dealing with young lads not adults) then yes, I think sometimes you do need to be ruthless to keep moving forward.

I would compare it to a team game (soccer fits the bill well) - you can assemble a great team and win cups. But if you rely on the same players for too long you can't maintain your dominance and you slip back in to the pack. The essence of being a great team manager (coach) is to constantly refresh your playing squad, bring in new players and move out older players. Alex Ferguson at Man United (damn them ) has done this for 15 years and they have remained at the top of English football.

Obviously we are talking about kids and singing but still............just a thought