'Synesthesia' & 'Imagination' in music

[kinda_k00l]

Okay, to explain briefly, some of the Libera Dream forum’s members (including me) have been discussing about a thing called ‘Synesthesia’ (or ‘synaesthesia’ which is the ability to 'see' music - you can read about it on Wikipedia) on Twitter; and we also came across a topic of ‘what comes to people’s mind when certain music is played – the ideas and images they get when listening to music’ about the ones who don’t have synesthesia of course.

Things have gone a lot further than expected and as Twitter is not an ideal place for certain discussion (we all seems to want to reply too much for the 140 character limit ) and it’s got really messy with all the Twitter’s reply system, I want to open a thread here to have thorough discussion about this interesting ‘synesthesia’ thing as well as some aspect of music psychology. We cannot say anything for sure, but we can exchange our ideas & opinions as always – maybe we’ll find something.

And I also want to know if there are any other people who have synesthesia as well in this forum. And if possible, please consider spending time sharing & discussing with us too. Thanks in advance!


P/S:
Here is the series of tweets about 'synesthesia' - there are filiarheni (she is a synesthete), andmar & me.
And here is the series of tweets about what a piece of mine brings to people's mind (I have removed all the title & description of it) - there are filiarheni (the synesthete one), andmar, Jay_S, Surpinto & me.
Those two are very long for those who are very interested in these 2 topics. OR you can read the organized content in my post below...

[kinda_k00l]

I've done copying & organizing what's happened on Twitter related to this amazing topic, the text is a bit long but very informative in my opinion.
---------------

Everything started with Libera’s Secret:

My opinion:
'Secret' is a special song. The feeling it gives is also special. How do I say it, it's like a pure breath of life, but also very personal. I'm not even saying about the lyrics, it was the feeling that the music alone brought to my ears (and soul). The first thing came to my mind was the image of a boy looking through a window glass, don't know why but it just appeared. Secret doesn't bring childhood back to me (maybe the place I grew up doesn't really 'fit' w/ it), but it's still very magical.

filiarheni’s:
"Secret" for me is like looking into a mirror. I never had this feeling before with any other music. And I don't mind the lyrics at all. It's the music, but in EVERY sense. I get a special, very pleasant scene of my childhood with sunset, blackbird, home, family, joy - 100 % peace. It's not only childhood memories, but the overall peaceful feeling which makes "Secret" such a precious, wonderful song to me. The music in each respect feels as if Robert had asked me how I'd like it or as if he had set myself to music. I've never had sth similar.

Then the topic of Synaesthesia began (all of these are by filiarheni):
Are you a synaestete? I am. At 1st, I noticed that "Secret" had a mixed orange colour. Then I got the picture (sunset, blackbird).
*Then I (kinda_k00l) ask if she sees colors in every music? Or only in specific songs/types??* I only see it (feel of course). Not always equally distinctive, but I see colours and forms. Not tiring, because I know it only like this. Letters and numbers also have colours, A for example is light green, 3 is yellow, and the alphabet and the number row also have a form.

I had never spoken about it because I thought that everybody has it. Then I was so surprised, when I read about it in the news one day. It's so hard to describe! Not ALL songs have _distinct_ colours; sometimes, it has just to do with the song's 1st letter: Adoramus is green. Often, I see a rows, no notes, but following the music. "HtM"= 3 rows, one below the other, & the 2nd is thicker and looks like cotton wool. It's all mingled, colours, these abstract images & the images I sometimes get through the lyrics. I never thought about it. It's just there. Stabat Mater during the Stabat-part looks like a ball (probably, because I feel the melody to be round) with Isaac (no, I don't see him exactly, I see a schematic single face (1 = soloist!) from the side, I see the singing) very close to my face. There is a light (white/light-yellow) background. The song is sad, but the colour of the entire song is bright because of Isaac's voice. It's important to know that all this happens in the background! It's always there, but it never draws my attention.

*Then andmar asked if they were always there and the same for the same piece of music and different for different ones* Yes, one song always appears the same way… And I'm not capable to comprehend how others hear music without seeing anything.
---------------

Moving on to one of my piece – I deleted everything related to the ‘content’ part of the piece (name, description, etc.) leaving only the music itself. I asked for a title, and here are the things that people ‘see’ & ‘feel’ when listening to it (please note that only filiarheni is a synesthete, the others have normal imagination):

Surpinto: It's pretty, very nicely done! A name? I'm afraid that coming up with that is not my forte. I understood your request, but I am simply incapable of assigning a name to a tune like that. My brain does not work that way.

Jay_S: I was thinking ‘Sunrise’. *then* I would call it 'The Green Hills of Home'. I was thinking Garden Sunrise at first. But I changed my mind when the strings came along lol

andmar: My first and very strong impression when hearing to the music was a forest. Early in the morning, waking up on a summer day with drops of dew sparkling in the sun. The title? Maybe "At dawn".

filiarheni: At first, I see many blossoms from very near in yellow, red, white spots, swaying a bit in the gentle wind. Later, the sun comes and I see more of the meadow now, the green of it filling a big part. Butterflies are there, too. It appears more like an animated film because of the synthetic sounds. If the instruments were real (or sounded real, then the picture would be more "natural" nature. And the usual more abstract: Musical rows that mingle following the song & with the above image. Paler colours: yellow, red, white & brown.

And here I am, as a composer telling the story & the scene I had in mind when I came up with this piece: I wrote this 4 years ago, and still remember I was very happy that day, the music came to me naturally - I just sat by the keyboard & the whole idea came in under 15 minutes, maybe because it came naturally, everyone thinks of the same thing or almost the same thing when listening to it (the trees & flowers & an open space)... About the colors, my favorite are yellow & green. So maybe it shows through the piece & filiarheni can see it? Also, I prefer sunrise to sunset so it gives the sense to Jay_S?? And one of my lifelong dreams is walking in a forest in the morning as andmar has described. I wonder if all of those are shown in my music!!

I also asked some other people and the answers they gave were somewhat alike – almost all of them said something about nature (green grassland, forest, yellow sun & light, creeks & streams…) and a feeling of calm & peaceful. Actually there are many many more, but I’m afraid this post has been too long already to post all the details they offered. Well, I call this piece 'Our Important Place' - as is dedicated to my childhood friends & neighborhood.

P/S: there is only one person reported to imagine completely different: he didn't see any 'nature' at all in that composition (not a city guy, he's from the countryside & is studying the same major as me in the university). He said that he has never heard this kind of music, so just 'saw' some abstract image & imagined something like the 'mystic universe'. It confused me a bit, but proved my guess to be right (to some extent) – that there must be some background required to ‘imagine’ all those things. Music itself (for us normal people, I don’t know about people with synesthesia) doesn’t bring much beauty except the beauty of the sounds itself, the other things we have in mind is to some degree determined by culture & experience.

[filiarheni]

Thank you, kinda_k00l, for doing all the work collecting the essentials of what's been said on twitter and moving it over here, where we are not limited to this 140 characters splints anymore, splitting all that can be said in many small posts. We can share and talk about sensations and perceptions much better now and, hopefully, we'll find out that we have some more synaesthetes here around - I trust we will! That would be extremely interesting for me.
When I asked you on twitter, I really thought that you were a synaesthete, too, and the further development was sort of work for me: I knew that I have that colours matter with numbers and letters (and words ... "music" is red ), but you and andmar caused me to make aware to myself to such an extent and put in words for the first time in my life what is going on, when I listen to music. Many thanks to you both. In fact, that was instructive also for me.

During the last days, I realised that I often see Libera's music as an agleam shape in front of a darker background. It differs according to the voices and to the registers. Gabe's voice in Smile for example is a clear, shining line. Isaac's soft voice in Angel is an unsharp line, but his voice shows itself nearly as clear and shining in Stabat Mater as Gabe's. (To make that clear: This is not judgemental, it's only my visualisation of their voices and doesn't say anything about what I like better, if at all!)

As to your song, kinda_k00l: I have been thinking about why all of us assigned your song to nature, and also about that guy who had never heard this kind of music before and did not see any nature in it. I see it in a similar way as you. I can well imagine that it has to do with that we just associate this kind of gentle nature with certain sounds, because we experienced something similar musically, but I also believe that most of us are simply inclined to such an association, naturally, although it doesn't work for everyone. As this is also what music used in advertisements and films is based upon. The composers want to achieve a certain mood in all who listen and use the according stylistic/instrumental devices which work generally. Maybe you used this intuitively for having the nature topic in your song, while we all saw something from nature, because we have a memory of this kind of sound or are inclined to it.

(By the way, my favourite colour is also green. )

[Surpinto]

I have read that some of those who can naturally memorize 10,000 digits of pi and similar things imagine each digit, and each sequence of digits, as having a shape, a color, even a "feel". There are ways to memorize these for competitions only, but I refer here only to those who do so more naturally. Music is tied closely in the brain to numeracy and a fixation on numeracy cannot be separated from a fixation on rhythm and harmony. What that means? I do not know.

[andmar]

I have read that some of those who can naturally memorize 10,000 digits of pi and similar things imagine each digit, and each sequence of digits, as having a shape, a color, even a "feel". There are ways to memorize these for competitions only, but I refer here only to those who do so more naturally. Music is tied closely in the brain to numeracy and a fixation on numeracy cannot be separated from a fixation on rhythm and harmony. What that means? I do not know.

Actually, synesthesia is something quite different than ability to memorize a large number of digits or so. I think, you confuse it with some techniques which use patterns or colours to help to memorize large amount of information, though synesthetes can use their ability to better memorize things, I guess.

Synesthesia is something completely different. People who have this, when stimulating one sense (sensory), automatically and involuntary experience like simulating another sense. It is like a coupling between two ways of information flow, which for the most people remain uncoupled. So, synesthetes experience visual sensation while listening to music for instance. Even smell sensations are known. The phenomenon is simply there from the birth. You can't learn to be a synesthese. Equally, you can't get rid of it if you are a synesthese.

I've heard about people being able to see or even smell music, but I have never met anyone like that. So, actually I'm glad, that filiarheni happens to be a synesthete. I think it's extremely interesting and may allow us for widening our own perspective of the reception of the music.

Actually, I was thinking about colour blindness as a possible analogy. Most of the people can see colours, but some can't. For all however, what they see is considered normal, as they don't know anything else. Recently, I've seen some videos showing colour blind people who got the chance to see colours for the first time in their lives, with a use of some sophisticated technology. Their reactions were just unbelievable. I wonder, if this example may be compared to experiencing music with ears only (like most of us do), and experiencing music with more senses (like synesthetes do).

I wonder, if there may be also someone else in the forum, who can see music or experience it differently then only by hearing. It would be interesting to get others opinions too.

[andmar]

I have some "technical" questions about synesthesia to better understand that experience. Of course, this is only my humble request, never a demand to get an answer. It's fascinating for me how experiencing music may go beyond just hearing it with the ears.

So, if you don't mind, @filiarheni, I'd be happy if you could explain following:

1. Does "seeing music" mean really seeing like with your eyes? How far this sensation impacts what you really see with your eyes? Isn't it disturbing or something? Isn't it distracting as you for instance drive a car?

2. Does every sound have its visual effect? Or majority, or minority of them? Is it the sound itself, or maybe the image is related to the music piece as a whole rather than to individual sounds?

3. When you write that the word "Music" is red, you mean that you see the letters to be red (if the word is written), or just have a word written with red letters in front of your eyes, or you see a red spot somewhere in the eyeshot?

4. Do the visualizations follow the music or are they rather static pictures?

5. Can other noises from the background impact the visualization and change it?

[kinda_k00l]

Maybe Surpinto's post means:
Besides people who assign numbers/stuff to certain colors & shapes to remember things more easily, there are also people who just see colors & shapes naturally. There is some connection between the case of 'seeing' music & other's case of being able to memorize 10,000 digits of pi (due to the fact that he/she can see colors & shapes naturally). The idea of such connection leads to a conclusion that the part of the brain which is responsible for the math-like stuff is also the part which is responsible for harmony & rhythmic fabric in music - it's like if you're 'normal' in this field, that means you're also normal in the other, and vice versa.

That's my brain's interpretation. I'm just really bad at natural science in general, so it takes me some time to understand his post, and I don't know if I understood it correctly(?)

I also have some questions about Synesthesia, besides what we've already known. *filiarheni, may I call for your help*
1. Is it heritable? (Some article says it is genetic, but I don't know)
2. If it is, are the things the kids see the same as those of their mother/father? (For example, some people say that 'A' is red, some say that 'A' is green - do their kids (if they are also synesthetes) see the same color?)


And I want to dig into the 'imagination' part, too. *this is the part where everyone can join, so please state your opinions*
It's about the 'form' of music & the 'content' it brings. I would say that the 'imagination' part is the 'content' of music, and as I've mentioned above, we can only 'see' something when we have some kind of background experience. In that way, can music itself offer us any 'content' at all (when separated from the background & experience of course)? Like, does the music ONLY bring the beauty of the 'form', and then it's our job to associate it with our culture/feelings/experiences/etc.?
In other words: is there any innate connection between the 'form' & the 'content'? Or that connection is determined by culture, feelings & experiences?

[filiarheni]

Some questions are hard to answer, as I never thought about it, so I will have to do that now and come back to you. I will only answer your first question now, andmar, as I'm going to drive home now, and nobody should worry about me:

NO!! Of course, I don't see anything physically with my eyes. It's only an automatic imagination before the inner eye, and it also isn't there all the time. While I'm writing this, I don't have it. And I also don't see colourful letters while writing, just the usual black letters.
When I listen to Libera while driving, the image assigned to the current song is there, but it is like imagining tomatoes, when you think about having to buy tomatoes for tonight's dinner. I'm not "watching TV" all the time!

I know a number of people who are synaesthetes ... it's not that unusual.

[filiarheni]

So, now. Most important, I want to make very clear once again that actually I of course don't "see" anything physically with my eyes, although I use the word here! Synaesthesia is not an illness. When you think e. g. of a Libera concert, you imagine with your mind's eye what it looked like. Or more: When you listen to a Libera song and visualise the concert. It's the same way I "see" the music or "see" coloured letters. The only difference is that it is no memory, it comes by itself. It's like a catchy tune: You hear it in your brain, but you don't hear it physically.

I'd like to slow down the idea that synaesthesia is something so special. It's only that two senses are involved instead of one. Just for fun, I asked my colleague this week, if letters and numbers in her imagination have colours, and she replied: "Yes, of course." And told me that at school she was always exchanging with others which colours their letters/numbers had.
Reading a book is not a matter of "Hey, colours, colours, colours!" It's the real written colour I see. But when someone says: "He is twenty-four years old", then I perceive a small 24 with a red 2 and a green 4 in my mind.

Referring to music, I could imagine that it is similar to people with a good numerical comprehension. They recognise relationships between numbers much quicker than other people. They create a connection in an own natural, unconscious way. When I listen to a song, I associate it with certain shapes and I imagine it as said above. Usually, I'm not aware of that certain shape, only when I make it aware to me deliberately. And when I think e. g. the word "Sanctissima", I have the image of this song in my mind. Visual association is an addition to the primary sense of hearing. Hearing music firstly and without any exception causes feelings in my soul. Imagination is only secondary, it accompanies the hearing.

1. Does "seeing music" mean really seeing like with your eyes? How far this sensation impacts what you really see with your eyes? Isn't it disturbing or something? Isn't it distracting as you for instance drive a car?

In addition to my previous answer to this question:
This is an unconscious process. It never is in the foreground; it never ever disturbs me, it never ever distracts me in any way. Yes, sometimes, indeed I feel enriched by it, e. g. with that mentioned "Eia Mater", whose polyphony I perceive like a net.
I've just made a test. I listened to the beginning of Benedictus Deus, where I, like I described in my "Hope" review, find that some notes glow. When I try to suppress the visualisation, I in fact narrow my musical enjoyment. Oh well. I didn't know that. But it is only narrowed, because I know it differently. It is nothing for what one should envy me, because you certainly enjoy the music as fully as I do, only in a bit different way.

I never choose the images voluntarily, they just appear, but I do believe that my reception of the song influences the shape. Hymn to Mary is calm, so the three rows that I perceive have no movement or big curves. Isaac's voice is gentle, therefore the associaton with something like cotton wool in that image - at least, this is my explanation of what comes to my mind.

2. Does every sound have its visual effect? Or majority, or minority of them? Is it the sound itself, or maybe the image is related to the music piece as a whole rather than to individual sounds?

4. Do the visualizations follow the music or are they rather static pictures?

A singular sound has its own visual effect. A music piece is one whole picture consisting of details. While listening, I always feel closer to the part which I hear at that moment. It remains one picture, when it is a short song, and it changes, when it is longer, like sheet music to be turned over - it just doesn't fit in one image.

The visualisations usually are nothing wild: a schematic score or something like frequencies. It's often diffuse and follows the music somehow and in some cases also partly the lyrics. (It has nothing to do with pictures I imagine like the flowers in your song, kind_c00l, this can come additionally). Maybe it has to do with being used to reading music. So it would be interesting for me, how a synaesthete who can't read music visualises it.

The picture of each song always remains the same. Like a photo you have taken. Or, do you know how it feels to smell something and at once are reminded of a certain situation? See it like that.

3. When you write that the word "Music" is red, you mean that you see the letters to be red (if the word is written), or just have a word written with red letters in front of your eyes, or you see a red spot somewhere in the eyeshot?

Hm. My spontaneous answer would have been: number 2. And it's true: I see the written word in my mind, and since my "m" is a certain form of red, the whole word is that way.
Nr. 3: never!
But Nr. 1 ... I have just tried it and realised that I don't see letters in colours, but somehow I "know" or I'm aware, when reading "music", that it is red. Do you understand what I mean? It's extremely hard to describe,

5. Can other noises from the background impact the visualization and change it?

No. It only add its own visual effect (since of course it also has one), but they don't interfere with each other.

1. Is it heritable? (Some article says it is genetic, but I don't know)

I don't know either. One of my sons is synaesthete too, the other one is not.

2. If it is, are the things the kids see the same as those of their mother/father? (For example, some people say that 'A' is red, some say that 'A' is green - do their kids (if they are also synesthetes) see the same color?)

In our case no. Each one of us has his individual colours for the same letter or number. My son in addition has an absolute pitch, which, by the way, is a similar matter: You just have it and it stays with you. He associates notes and harmonies with colours, and these colours depend on the register of the note he hears.

It's really not that big deal! I register that it's there, ok and "so what?" There was never a reason to talk about it further, I only asked you, kinda_k00l, because you told us what you imagine. Your reaction made me think about it, and yes, this is interesting now also for me to suddenly reflect it thoroughly, but after this will have ebbed away and all your questions are answered, I'll certainly forget about it again, because I just don't feel the need of investigating something further that is as normal to me as having two arms and two legs.

For me, it's also difficult to comprehend the other way: While you listen to music, what does your mind's eye do? Where is your imagination during this time?

[Jay_S]

This thread has me feeling dizzy!!

[filiarheni]

Much too many words for something like this, that's right. But certainly no reason to get dizzy.

It is not at all as big a matter as you may think. I only don't seem to be able to make myself understood. I try again: While eating, we not only taste the food, but also smell it. When we hold your nose so that we can't smell anymore, the food doesn't taste as strong/good anymore. So we see that two senses are involved at the same time. But smelling is more unconscious to us. With hearing + imagining it feels similar.
http://www.brainfacts.org/sensing-think ... and-smell/


Maybe, they can explain it better:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... ynesthesia

I'm a mild synaesthete and I'm glad that I don't smell music ... For those with a fine nose this could become quite unpleasant ...

[kinda_k00l]

I didn't really realize that it would take you so much time & effort to think & find answers to all these questions!
Your answers are thorough, and I know a lot more about synesthesia now. Thank you very much for sharing the information with us!

I'd like to slow down the idea that synaesthesia is something so special. It's only that two senses are involved instead of one. Just for fun, I asked my colleague this week, if letters and numbers in her imagination have colours, and she replied: "Yes, of course." And told me that at school she was always exchanging with others which colours their letters/numbers had.

This is interesting for me! Are they all synesthetes too?

Or, do you know how it feels to smell something and at once are reminded of a certain situation? See it like that.

This!! This is exactly what I need for a perfect example, I know this feeling super well!!

I agree that 'suppress' something you originally feel can make a song less interesting, it's the same way for me too, although I'm not a synesthete. And I partly understand about the word 'music' being red now.
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So, may I summarize things into these 3 statements (please correct me if I'm wrong):
1. Synesthesia doesn't mean seeing things physically, it's through the mind's eye.
2. But it's different from imagination as the visuals are fixed (cannot be changed and one song can only bring about certain images) - that's pretty much the reason why background noises cannot interfere with them.
3. Everything happens in an unconscious way - synesthetes just 'know' or 'aware' that they are there and they have these forms, without taking any notice or consideration.
----------

This thread has me feeling dizzy!!

What, really?
As filiarheni has said, just too many words - and not that complicated.

[kinda_k00l]

I only asked you, kinda_k00l, because you told us what you imagine. Your reaction made me think about it

For me, it's also difficult to comprehend the other way: While you listen to music, what does your mind's eye do? Where is your imagination during this time?

It's time I took my time to review about my imagination more thoroughly and share it as you've been busy doing yours, right?
Now I don't even know if everybody's imagination works the same, but here is some information about my case of 'listening to music without seeing anything'.

I think I should mention that I really like to imagine things, ever since I was a little kid. I use my imagination almost everywhere since I was young - as a kid, I used to act as if my house's small garden had been a national park. At the present, whenever I see a beautiful landscape, I imagine myself feeling the trees, grass, breeze; whenever I see an interesting picture, I imagine a broader view to the left/right; I imagine the sceneries when reading books, even for comic books I can imagine additional details/plots; I imagine how life would be if this/that happened or had happened (sometimes I got lost in these imaginations for hours); I also imagine myself in some non-existent situation (like spending half an hour to draw out what my first time seeing Libera will be like). I am also a person who treasure memories from the past (sometimes a little bit too much), so things can easily get into my mind to make me imagine how would my life be if I have/do this/that at those times, etc.

When it comes to music, my mind does the same thing. Certain types of music bring around certain feelings and imagination. I like (and have a tendency) to widen my imagination rather than 'suppress' it. For example, the color & atmosphere in the 'O Sanctissima' video of Libera somehow matches with my imagination when I listened to it for the first time. For 'Secret', I really don't know why but I can clearly think of a boy opening a window to a garden (which I described as 'a pure breath of life'), and as I feel that he also has some kind of his own interpretation of the world surrounding him, I find it also 'very personal'. Putting these ideas into words does seem odd to me. That is not 100% how I feel, but I cannot find another way to express it.
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To make things clearer, I think I should compare it with the 3 statements about synesthesia I've said:
1. Imagination also does not mean seeing anything physically, this one is too obvious!!
2. The visuals, however, are not fixed. For example, there was once I listened to a rather sad soundtrack, I was thinking of the separation of a group of friends or of the 2 lovers. However, as I 'feel' a relief & somewhat hopeful sound, I was thinking that soundtrack was suitable for the reunion scenes as well. Which means I can get several imaginations for one piece.
3. My imagination of songs usually come in quite naturally, but I am also aware of that, and I can 'organize' or somehow 'distort' them too. That said, certain music offers certain feelings, but not always the same imagination.

It is also important to note that: this imagination thing does not always work. There are times I listen to music without really 'seeing' anything - this happens when the music itself is too trashy (the I-feel-absolutely-nothing kind, in my personal view of course), too complex (like many polyphony pieces), or too hard to catch up (like some atonal music in the 20th century). Sometimes my mind does develop some kind of imagination after being used to those pieces too complex or hard to catch up, sometimes it doesn't.
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I haven't (and couldn't) expressed all of the things I want to, maybe I need some more time and/or some questions. I especially hope this give you useful information about the people who are not 'normal' in the same way as you, filiarheni

P/S: Again, I don't know if my imagination works the same as that of others.

[andmar]

Filiarheni, thank you for your extremely interesting posts about synaesthesia. I have read them a couple of times and really enjoyed every sentence.

I didn't really realize that it would take you so much time & effort to think & find answers to all these questions!
Your answers are thorough, and I know a lot more about synesthesia now. Thank you very much for sharing the information with us!

I'd like to join kinda_k00l's above statement and sign it with my both hands .

Thank you for so detailed answering my questions.

I'd like to slow down the idea that synaesthesia is something so special. It's only that two senses are involved instead of one. Just for fun, I asked my colleague this week, if letters and numbers in her imagination have colours, and she replied: "Yes, of course." And told me that at school she was always exchanging with others which colours their letters/numbers had.

It looks to me, that synaesthesia isn't so rare at all. We just do not realize, that they are people who experience things in a different way than ourselves. I understand now, that synaesthesia is not a kind of "superpower" to see things beyond sight, but it is rather kind of imagination. Only, that the imaginations (I avoid the word "images" here not to confuse them with normal visual experience) appear automatically and unconsciously and in a repetitive way.


I think, kinda_k00l's summary:

1. Synesthesia doesn't mean seeing things physically, it's through the mind's eye.
2. But it's different from imagination as the visuals are fixed (cannot be changed and one song can only bring about certain images) - that's pretty much the reason why background noises cannot interfere with them.
3. Everything happens in an unconscious way - synesthetes just 'know' or 'aware' that they are there and they have these forms, without taking any notice or consideration.

very well explains the matter. Is it right filiarheni?

Except to getting to know about synaesthesia, I got aware about that imagination part too. This is something, I have really never paid to much attention to. Yes, I imagined something from time to time, but actually never cared too much. It was so, as my inner eye was closed most of the time. Now, I can consciously imagine something, or maybe notice what appears in front of my inner eye while listening to the music.

Now coming back to Libera music and imagination. Actually, when listening to most of the Libera songs I have a strange feeling, that something important is happening, something good, meaningful, peaceful and that I am involved and in the middle of that. A feeling of joy, peace and excitement. I never tried to find out what it could be; it was there and was pleasant. Now, I will pay more attention and will try to open my inner eye to see it more clearly.

Thank you filiarheni and kinda_k00l for this interesting discussion.

P.S. This topic is difficult to express with words anyway. As I'm not a native English speaker, it was sometimes extremely difficult for me to express what I wanted to say.

[kinda_k00l]

I would like to add more to this thread (if you guys are still interested) - there are things that I did not realize or they just did not come to my mind when we had this discussion earlier. Today my brain just recalled it up for no reasons, I tried digging deeper and something did rise up to the surface.

The first thing is the sound of choirs. I am no synesthete, but I have always (and I mean it - since I was a little kid until now) associated the sound of choirs (even the synthesized choir sounds) to be something like some sort of soft cotton. I cannot describe what that 'cotton thing' looks like, but I know about it, really!
I don't feel this way about a single voice singing - the feeling adds up when more voices joined together - the more the voices, the more I feel that way. It also works with harmony - more harmony parts = more soft cotton. I realized that I have been trying to pull this out of my choir members - I want them to give me the exact feeling about a soft cotton ball.
While I have to say this is not a rare thing at all as I believe all of us has such similar feeling about the sound of choirs, but I do feel pretty specific about the thing that comes to my mind in this case.

Second, I have read filiarheni's review of Hope one more time, and I find some of your visuals is somewhat the same (and also some exactly the same, from what I read). These are all images I had got before we started talking about synesthesia.

• The image you got from 'Angele Dei', for example, is exactly the same as mine - on a journey heading to some mystical place, then a radiance appears and just drowns me in.

• The case of 'Benedictus Deus' is also somewhat alike - the floating effect of the 'Gloria' part and the 'glow' of the high notes (my case also includes the 'nomen SANCtum' at the beginning).

• For 'Venite Adoremus' - I get the picture of the ghostly monks too (not the aquatic plants underwater though).

• What you said earlier about 'Stabat Mater' also matches my imagination - with a space full of yellow (for me is a little bit more 'golden' & 'earthy' than pure yellow though). Now, after some of our discussion, I feel that Isaac's voice does provide a pure yellow color for my mind indeed (I don't know if I was affected by your visuals but at the moment I just can't see it otherwise). About the "his voice is somewhat 'round'" part, I also do get some of that feeling now. Isn't it strange (and creepy)?

Third, I also became aware that the scenes in the videos of 'O Sanctissima' & 'Far Away' (the one shot outdoors) almost fully match; those of the videos of 'Time' & 'Voca Me' partly match my imagination...

It is strange to know that my mind has contained such things all the time without me being aware of it. And also why it suddenly recalled so many things related to this topic today is some kind of mystery. More things may come in the future, and somehow that's interesting.